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Old 11-15-2000, 08:20 AM
Mr Peete Mr Peete is offline
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: San Francisco, CA, USA
Posts: 148
Default It\'s cold in here ...

okay, I've listened to some mixes that I've done on analog consoles. I've listen to mixes I've done on Digi 001. Is it me or does our friend Digi sound a wee-bit on the cold/flat side. The bottom isn't ass thick wit the Digi. Or maybe the engineer (ie, me) doesn't quite know what he's doing yet.

Any plugins or techniques out there to warm things up? Or at least make the bottom of my mixes seem thicker?
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Old 11-15-2000, 08:28 AM
JohnnyBlade JohnnyBlade is offline
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Posts: 3
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

I kinda noticed the same thing with my mixes at friends places as I took my test CD around. I remixed with waves maxbass on the bass track, added more compression and cranked the kick. I played it loud on our PA, and mixed it till I could "feel" the kick and bass. Big dif.

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Old 11-15-2000, 08:33 AM
maxcap maxcap is offline
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: New Bedford Ma USA
Posts: 288
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

I only used the demos for a little while but I really liked Digi's D-Fi tape saturator. It seems a little touchy but it still makes a pleasant noise.

[This message has been edited by maxcap (edited November 15, 2000).]
Everyone in this room is wearing a suit, and don't kid yourselves Zappa
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Old 11-15-2000, 01:24 PM
coaster coaster is offline
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: fargo nd usa
Posts: 1,042
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

mr peete

digital is an entirely different beast isnt it?

i have had/still have the same problems.

these guys have some good ideas,

but i have found about the only thing you can do to get that punchy warm style of bass your looking for is too either

1. buss those elements out to a 15ips or faster deck (this is really nice!) and reimport them

2. use a subgroup compressor for the low end elements. buss all low freq material (bass, kick, toms, etc) to one stereo submaster, place a limiter or compressor on it, set to take off about 3-5 db and heres the key:

use a really slow attack/fast release.

like 20-120ms attack, 10-40ms release.

this will PUNCH the bass end of things, and take power away from it so other elements can pop through.

this works really well also.

good luck!

for the faint of goth
for the faint of goth
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Old 11-15-2000, 01:27 PM
lwilliam lwilliam is offline
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: Allison Park, PA (Near Pittsburgh)
Posts: 5,099
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

I 2nd the DADValve (DUY Everpak). I also use the Antares Mic Modeler with the "saturation" up a bit (you don't have to use it only on mic'ed tracks).

I don't think the Digi001, by itself, is going to produce mixes that would compare to 2" tape mixed through a high-end analog console. I've heard the difference recording to 2" tape makes. To get close, you will have to get some hardware:

1. Better A/D converters, the Apogee Rosetta is very popular.
2. Great Mic(s)
3. "Fat" preamp; DW Fearn, Cranesong, Avalon, Millenia Media, Manley, and others make really good preamps.
4. Great-sounding instruments
5. Great players/performers
6. Good mastering

...and not necessarily in that order.

IMHO, it's getting that "last 15%" of quality to compare with the major releases that costs so much money. $800 (Digi001/PTLE) gets you in the ballpark. Now add $5000-$10,000 in A/D converters, mics, and preamps, and you're 10% closer.


PT 2021; MacBookPro M1; 16GB; Spectrasonics; Native Instruments, Toontrack, Waves...too many plugins.
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Old 11-15-2000, 02:10 PM
phobia phobia is offline
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Sweden
Posts: 816
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

I guess digital mostly is "purer" and cleaner
than the analog counter part.

A lot of analog equipment add to, or change the tonal quality of a sound source, mostly in a way that is desirable by humans.

Digital systems on the other hand doesn't do that unless you do that explicitly yourself.

So I guess it is a matter or learning what to do in the digital world to accomplish the things (like saturation, compression, overtones etc) some analogue gear to for you, IF, that is desirable.

But it ain't easy.

Some people go to the extreeme.
I think Portishead once recorded all their loops, vocals and other things like guitar tracks and samples to vinyl records.

Then thay re-sampled that and used for the
real mix.

The said, the process of doing this adds so many things to the sonic timbre that we felt this was the fastest and most accurate way
to accomplish what we wanted.

Of course they used gear that they had a lot of experience on.

// Joakim W

>>We need more time so that everything doesn't happen at once<<
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Old 11-15-2000, 08:41 PM
edworf edworf is offline
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago
Posts: 148
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

You could always add a bit of vinyl lp static noise to the background...
and record yourself chomping on pringles potato chips in front of a box fan.

And if that don't work, try recording to analog with dolby b and bringing it back in to Protools with NR off.

Yes, I do need professional help.
Have fun!

Ed Worf
Chicago burbs
Ed Worf Heller
(If you need a pro tools assistant in Chicago, drop me a line)
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Old 11-15-2000, 10:29 PM
Doc Doc is offline
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Posts: 1,063
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

That's quite amusing. How about bussing the bass track thru mono VHS without NR at all
Seriously though, I have been using Stienberg Magneto to add some analog warmth to those tracks that need it. I don't know if there is an RTAS version of this.
I export the track as wav file to my PC, process it and bring back into PT. It's a bit fiddly (no more so than dumping to analog tape though), but the results are worth it. If there is an RTAS version available, it would be worth the $. Must check that.
This works really well with analog keyboard stuff too. Particularly lead lines and bass.
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Old 11-16-2000, 07:30 AM
bassmac bassmac is offline
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 1,754
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

If it’s the actual bass track you’re not happy with, try a Bass POD - I just got one and love it! A good rich bass tone can do alot for your overall mixes.

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Old 11-16-2000, 10:20 AM
guitates guitates is offline
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Toluca Lake, Ca 91610
Posts: 1,196
Default Re: It\'s cold in here ...

My 2 cents!! (sense?) With $800 .001 digital domain the answer is----

Drum roll please---


Sorry--I got carried away--

OK if you really want to go outside the digital domain to a tape recorder or something more exotic like vinyl(har) and have great D/A converters, then go ahead and spend you $ on that stuf. I find that with the Waves Native Gold Bundle stuf--I do every thing right in my little computer and then burn straight to CD, (No generation A/D losses) and which means that I don't need to send signals back through D/A converters, then back to the computer ETC.

Of course, recording requires the A to D conversion, and I highly recommend a quality mic/pre to record Vx and many other instruments. Once you have the tracks properly recorded, which means that you went to the trouble to get the best sound in the first place ie. the recording process--(fat-big etc). Then you only need basic enhancing with the plug-ins.

FYI--Waves recomends Maxxbass for the master fader. I think most people think that it is meant for the bass gtr, which I will say that it definitely enhances the bass gtr. if you compress it first. Try it on the entire mix and check out the BIG-FAT sound.

Also, I think that the L1+ limmiter/dithering/mastering plug-in is a MUST have for any kind of Excellent recording sound. The L1 has an anolog/digital domain selector. I have found that the analog setting really helps cause the "mix" to warm up with analog Fuzzies.

The ren comp has the ability to add analog warmth, and this comp has the L1 brickwall limiting when you crank the output gain and this really warms/fattens any track.

Ok--The Ren EQ actually adds dithering and obviously using an EQ could help in some cases.

What about dithering?? Does anyone in this thread actually realize that you are adding "analog" noise to the digital signal?
You Must Dither before "Converting After Bounce"--Waves IDR or PT?? You be the judge!

I am a believer in the ability to actually manipulate the digital domain to sound analog-ish or just any way you want!! JT
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