it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

[doubtful guest]

Hi DUC people, I was wondering if anyone is using protools midi for sequencing drums tracks?
Is it possible to get something close to sample accuracy?
The last time I tried(several pt versions ago) I would get very bad timing errors regardless of what midi devices(external drum machines, reason rewire, etc) or hardware settings were used. I've gone back to using an MPC or linn9000 externally, but I'd really like to find something that integrates better with protools.
thanks!

[Graham Hinton]

No. Not with a USB interface and not with OSX MIDI. You'll be lucky to get events within 2ms of where they should be and with quantised errors of the same order. It is not Pro Tools fault, that is the system it gets to use and it is not up to the job. Go back to OS 9 and FreeMIDI (emulating OMS) and you'll get 0.5ms accuracy using a serial port.
The only way that MIDI could be improved now is with a dedicated FireWire interface chip and bypassing the shoddy OSX MIDI. That is not going to happen, nobody cares. Just record the sound and correct it, that's what everybody else does.

[accession]

You'll be lucky to get events within 2ms of where they should be

Isn't the MIDI spec limited to around 1ms per MIDI event?

So 2ms (allowing for OS, USB, and latency from the MIDI device on the receiving end) sounds quite good to me.

When the CPU isn't under full steam running plug-ins, MIDI timing has never been an issue for me. However, when the going gets tough, the slop gets going.

[DigiTechSupt]

Isn't the MIDI spec limited to around 1ms per MIDI event?

That's correct - due to the serial nature of MIDI, the more MIDI events you have going on, the more likely it is that timing accuracy will get worse. You can alleviate some of that by getting a MIDI interface that supports time-stamping with the audio application you're using (currently, only the MIDI IO will do this with Pro Tools).

While time-stamping can improve MIDI timing, it's not a catch-all. Any time you're sending a lot of MIDI data down a cable, it's going to decrease accuracy. All that time-stamping does is 'pre-cache' the MIDI data at the MIDI interface so that it can then be transmitted more accurately. Without time-stamping, MIDI events are tied to the computer clock - which, if it gets busy doing other things, can cause some timing inaccuracies. While time-stamping can improve accuracy between the computer and the MIDI interface, it cannot overcome the inherent limits on transmission speeds between the MIDI interface and your device, or your devices accuracy when playing back incoming MIDI data.

The best way to keep timing accurate is to limit the amount of MIDI data that any particular device is receiving at any one time. Filtering any non-essential messages can improve timing quite considerably.

[filosofem]

(currently, only the MIDI IO will do this with Pro Tools).

...and the Mbox 2 Pro for us LE users.






filosofem

[accession]

...and the Mbox 2 Pro for us LE users.

But sadly not my AMT8 despite previously statements by Digidesign suggesting otherwise.

Anyone want to buy an AMT8?



Having said that, now I have an MPB, the MB2Pro is kinda appealing...

[filosofem]

accession, long time no speak, I, the MB2P is quite the pocket rocket, I'm really glad I brought the thing when they first came out, she can throw a punch or two, though I'll point out that any external clocking above 48k is a no go.

Oh, and Footswitch is now supported with 7.4.










filosofem

[jeffbruckner]

Midi timing has been an issue, easily corrected / reduced by avoiding 'daisy chaining'
and other simple techniques.

Protools is the worst system available, procured and marketed by Digidesign
in the same way as Apple.

Requiring a ground up rebuild, it has consistantly dissapointed users, and presented the worst interface, inability to provide basic tasks, limited interfacing , bespoke peripherals - unreliable system ingetration, unsupported previous version compatibility, incomprehensible syntax, fickle introduction and removal of software -( plugin format VST RTAS AAX) / hardware - ( Firewire etc).

Conclusion - Expensive / unreliable / to be avoided.

[albee1952]

Originally Posted by jeffbruckner

Midi timing has been an issue, easily corrected / reduced by avoiding 'daisy chaining'
and other simple techniques.

Protools is the worst system available, procured and marketed by Digidesign
in the same way as Apple.

Requiring a ground up rebuild, it has consistantly dissapointed users, and presented the worst interface, inability to provide basic tasks, limited interfacing , bespoke peripherals - unreliable system ingetration, unsupported previous version compatibility, incomprehensible syntax, fickle introduction and removal of software -( plugin format VST RTAS AAX) / hardware - ( Firewire etc).

Conclusion - Expensive / unreliable / to be avoided.

Interesting as I have had almost zero issues with Midi in Pro Tools going all the way back to LE6.1. Even with my most complicated setup with a Yamaha Motif es8, Roland TD-10 and a 3rd midi keyboard all working at once(3 instrument tracks in record with Superior Drummer, MiniGrand and either DB-33 or LoungeLizard's Wurly with 2 keyboard players. I totally agree on avoiding daisy-chaining as midi latency is accumulative.

[bluskiff]

I noticed after doing some research into PPQ old drum machine had a lower PPQ than protools. To lower the PPQ cut the tempo in half. 120 BPM was same old midi slop. I then dropped the tempo to 60 BPM ( reprogramming the beat to fit the new tempo)and noticed things were tighter. Same thing again at 30 BPM tighter. led me to tempo ruler Settings. Setting the dens to bars instead of 250ms seems to tighten things up. For me anyway This seems to feel better.