Best Bounce

[blairl]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AverageJoe:
After editing heads and tails, bounce to stereo file, using convert after bounce(to 44.1/16 bit- it seems more people-including Digi say to use convert even with Digi-Dither plug-in), and voila, I have my 'master.'<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you've got a dither plug-in on the master fader that is set for 16 bits (in a 24 bit session) then you do not need to select "Convert After Bounce". If you just bounce that session to a 16 bit file all will be well. The dither plug-in is already taking care of the bottom extra 8 bits so there is no information there to "convert after bounce". By bouncing directly to a 16 bit file you are just truncating the 8 extra bits that don't have any information anyway. However, if you're not using a dither or noise shaping plug-in of some kind then the story is different.

[AverageJoe]

Blairl-

That seems to be a source of some controversy here on the DUC- from reading through old threads, Digi's official stance is that you must use BOTH the dither plug in AND convert after bounce for best results (http://www.digidesign.com/ubb/Forum2/HTML/002823.html), but that seems to be contested widely by DUC users- guess I'll have to make my own judgement on that one.

Does the rest of my process look ok- as far as levels go? If I'm not seeing any clipping lights am I ok to be raising the Master Fader up to get the most gain?

[This message has been edited by AverageJoe (edited December 19, 2000).]

[Giulio]

Many DUCkers (DUC users) complain about the quality of PT's bounce. There was a forum a couple of weeks ago regarding this, and it had tens of replies. From this point of view, bouncing your mix twice seems a bit odd.
Why don't you put all your plug-ins during the first bounce?
As always, let your ears decide.
The "clip light" thing is quite right, I think.

[blairl]

Average Joe

I hooked up to the link that you had on the old topic. Not that I'm trying to be contrary or anything, but I think that John from digidesign was wrong on his comment of needing to "convert after bounce". From my understanding, you can just go to the "resolution" section on the bounce window and select 16 bits. The dither plug-in has already crammed the 8 extra bits into the 16 bit signal before it writes the new 16 bit file so again I say that the "convert after bounce" option is completely unnecessary in this case. The extra (blank) 8 bits will just get truncated, but since there's nothing there it doesn't matter. Remember that I'm only talking about a case where you have a dither plug-in on the master fader. Otherwise, "Convert After Bounce" is needed. Maybe a digi software engineer could chime in on this topic and clear it up once and for all.

[AverageJoe]

I've been poring over post posts regarding the best methods to bounce sessions for mastering (in-house, not *real* mastering!).

Here's what looks like the way to go (I'm looking for corrections to this):
I have a 44.1/24bit session that eventually will end up 44.1/16bit. After mixing, I am currently adjusting the master fader to get the most gain w/o overs when I bounce- I'm not compressing the master fader at this point, just raising it up to use all available headroom.

Bounce to 44.1/24 bit split stereo files (no dithering or conversion).

Reload files into PT put DUY Shape, DUY Max, and Digi-Dither (to 16 bit) on the master fader, and adjust accordingly.

After editing heads and tails, bounce to stereo file, using convert after bounce(to 44.1/16 bit- it seems more people-including Digi say to use convert even with Digi-Dither plug-in), and voila, I have my 'master.'

Sound like it should be the way to go? I've tried some other methods and not gotten great results.

On a related side note- is this statement correct?: ...If there are no red clip lights in the recording of the various instruments and no red clip lights during the mix process, a bounce should contain NO DISTORTION (unless intended by an instrument)...

Thanks!

[Extreme Mixing]

I agree. It makes no sense to have a dither plug and convert after bounce. Why spend the processing power if it is not productive. Also, who would buy the Apogee Master Tools plug if this were true?

Steve

[crowdog]

I have had great results bouncing my original 24 bit tracks without any plugs on the master to split files , then reimport into a new 24 bit session . Then add your inserts onto the master including dither ( I'm using L1) , shape to taste, then bounce that 2 - track to a 16 bit stereo file - and here is your "in-house master". I wouldn't add anything to the master fader of the original tracking session - to my ears it get's a bit crunchy & loses depth.
Tony

[Arno Peeters]

Still: can Digi explain what the benefits are of 'convert after bounce' since in the from related treads, it's clear that you're able to create CD's from bounces with a dither plug on the master....



------------------
Arno Peeters
Tape TV Productions

[tld]

I remember the thread mentioned above, and found it quite confusing. I use my AD8000 to apply UV22 on my masters, and wanted to ensure that the bounce was simply truncating the empty 8 least significant bits, and was not performing any unwanted processing, such as dither. I think blairl is correct on this, but it amazes me that I've NEVER seen a straight answer on this one from Digi. Since I'm using MLCD I used to bounce to 24 bit split stereo and let MLCD truncate the empty bits...only because I wasn't clear on these bounce options.

Exactly what is the purpose of 'Convert After Bounce'? Does it apply dither? Is it just for SR conversion? I'd love to see this one cleared up.

Tom

[This message has been edited by tld (edited December 20, 2000).]

[AvidCS]

Good questions.

Let me get some clarifications from the engineering braintrust, and we'll get a response posted.

Thanks.


Bob Langlie
DigiCS