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  #1  
Old 09-08-2005, 03:23 PM
jlcnyc jlcnyc is offline
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Default Oxford Limiter and Oxford Inflator - chaining?

I recently purchased the Sony Oxford Limiter and Inflator.
My question:
when using these plugs in conjunction on a final "bounce to disk" mix (DYI demo mastering), I am under the impression that the Inflator would be placed AFTER the Limiter.
If this is the case, what should I do about the dither on the limiter? There does not seem to be a "off" option on the dither.
I know that dithering is the last event in the chain. If I place (another) dither after the limiter and inflator, am I "double dithering"? I assume this is a bad idea?
any advice is appreciated

thanks
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  #2  
Old 09-08-2005, 05:32 PM
Paul Frindle Paul Frindle is offline
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Default Re: Oxford Limiter and Oxford Inflator - chaining?

Quote:
I recently purchased the Sony Oxford Limiter and Inflator.
My question:
when using these plugs in conjunction on a final "bounce to disk" mix (DYI demo mastering), I am under the impression that the Inflator would be placed AFTER the Limiter.
If this is the case, what should I do about the dither on the limiter? There does not seem to be a "off" option on the dither.
I know that dithering is the last event in the chain. If I place (another) dither after the limiter and inflator, am I "double dithering"? I assume this is a bad idea?
any advice is appreciated

thanks
Turning dither off entirely isn't really a legal option because any reduction in the gain (or certain other signal modifications) within a process will invalidate dither from a previous source. This means that you cannot avoid double dithering if there are two plug-ins - and it also means there is a slight noise overhead from each and every 24 bit interface between processes (luckily it's not too great at 24 bits). So the interface between the limiter and the inflator require 24bit dithering like any other signal chain and that's why there's no switch to turn off dither (on any Oxford plug)

It's ok to chain them this way for 24bit mastering - you will get legal 24bit TPDF dithered output from the inflator anyway.
However if you are aiming at a 16 bit master there are problems in chaining them in this order since currently the inflator has no 16bit dither option. If you try to use the limiter's dither prior to the inflator to generate 16bit dither - passing it through the inflator will damage the dither to some extent and sadly the situation isn't ideal (especially if you use noise shaping as well).
The best thing to do to remain on the safe side is set the limiter to TPDF 24 bit dither mode - pass this to the inflator as normal and re-dither to 16 bits with another plug-in before output to master.

Another possibility is putting the inflator before the limiter - in this way you can get the character of the inflator as well as getting the legal 16bit dither direct from the limiter. In most cases this is likely to sound more forgiving - and it's very likely to be just as loud. Since the inflator and limiter use different processes to enhance loudness - they do not negate each other or actually cancel out as such.
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  #3  
Old 09-08-2005, 10:50 PM
jlcnyc jlcnyc is offline
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Default Re: Oxford Limiter and Oxford Inflator - chaining?

thank you Paul!!!!!
I was really hoping that you would see my post. It's nice to get advice from the guy who "built" the plugs.
(What more could I ask for?)
I had concluded from the Limiter manual that my chain should probably be: 1) Limiter (24 bit) to 2) Inflator to 3) Dither (16 bit)
I had also tried the 1) Inflator to 2) Limiter (16 bit) chain, but I was unsure if it was advisable to Limit an "Inflated" file.
Thanks for the clarification.
I'll play around with the different options.

thanks again
__________________
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Mac Pro 2.8 GHz Quad
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Apogee Rosetta 200/ UA LA-610
Genelec 8030A/7050b
McDSP, Waves, Sony, URS, Spectrasonics, BFD, Altiverb
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  #4  
Old 01-19-2013, 05:59 PM
Filthrill Filthrill is offline
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Default Re: Oxford Limiter and Oxford Inflator - chaining?

Hey Paul. I know this is a really really old thread but I had a question if u wouldn't mind giving me ur opinion.

I've used Sonnox Limiter on countless masters, set TPDF, no noise shaping or anything else. Just TPDF set to 24bit on the plug. I usually inserted Waves L2 after that, set to 16bit dither, Type 1, Ultra. Then I bounced the songs. Is this truly considered double dithering? Think it was really detrimental to the final sound? Sounded ok to me at the time & nothing really bothered me or stood out as a negative artifact before or after the bounces.

Any insight would be highly appreciated!
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  #5  
Old 04-02-2013, 01:42 AM
Filthrill Filthrill is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Northridge, CA
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Default Re: Oxford Limiter and Oxford Inflator - chaining?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Frindle View Post
Turning dither off entirely isn't really a legal option because any reduction in the gain (or certain other signal modifications) within a process will invalidate dither from a previous source. This means that you cannot avoid double dithering if there are two plug-ins - and it also means there is a slight noise overhead from each and every 24 bit interface between processes (luckily it's not too great at 24 bits). So the interface between the limiter and the inflator require 24bit dithering like any other signal chain and that's why there's no switch to turn off dither (on any Oxford plug)

It's ok to chain them this way for 24bit mastering - you will get legal 24bit TPDF dithered output from the inflator anyway.
However if you are aiming at a 16 bit master there are problems in chaining them in this order since currently the inflator has no 16bit dither option. If you try to use the limiter's dither prior to the inflator to generate 16bit dither - passing it through the inflator will damage the dither to some extent and sadly the situation isn't ideal (especially if you use noise shaping as well).
The best thing to do to remain on the safe side is set the limiter to TPDF 24 bit dither mode - pass this to the inflator as normal and re-dither to 16 bits with another plug-in before output to master.

Another possibility is putting the inflator before the limiter - in this way you can get the character of the inflator as well as getting the legal 16bit dither direct from the limiter. In most cases this is likely to sound more forgiving - and it's very likely to be just as loud. Since the inflator and limiter use different processes to enhance loudness - they do not negate each other or actually cancel out as such.
Hey Paul. I know this is a really really old thread but I had a question if u wouldn't mind giving me ur opinion.

I've used Sonnox Limiter on countless masters, set TPDF, no noise shaping or anything else. Just TPDF set to 24bit on the plug. I usually inserted Waves L2 after that, set to 16bit dither, Type 1, Ultra. Then I bounced the songs. Is this truly considered double dithering? Think it was really detrimental to the final sound? Sounded ok to me at the time & nothing really bothered me or stood out as a negative artifact before or after the bounces.

Any insight would be highly appreciated!
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