HDCAM frame rate oddities with Machine Control

[MIKEROPHONICS]

Dear All

Whilst reversioning an HD programme from "over the pond" into a UK version (a de-accent/re-accent plug in anyone?) we have encountered some problems.

HD material is usually 1080 24p and standards converted (time for time) to make a pal 25p 1080i on Sony HDcam and then shipped to the UK to be reversioned.

A tape was sent labelled as pal 25p 1080i. We digitized into PT using pt 7.2 cs? on a dual 2.5ghz G5, OSX 10.4.6 HD2 Sync IO pal house sync blah blah.
We use the machine control profile HDW500 to control the Sony HDWM200P.
The tape was actually 24p - but the deck allows PT to lock with a 25fps 48khz session (no one noticed the 24p at this stage) as we took composite bitc pictures.
The prog was voiced and upon mix back problems occured dropping in onto the tape - and the 24p thing was eventually sussed. PT gave no warnings whilst digitizing.

This is not my project (oh blameless one) but now a 1080i 25pal version has been made - it drifts 2 sec over the 40 minutes. Would this be because a frame for frame conversion has been done?
What next? any advice?

cheers

[Frank Kruse]

Originally Posted by MIKEROPHONICS

Dear All

Whilst reversioning an HD programme from "over the pond" into a UK version (a de-accent/re-accent plug in anyone?) we have encountered some problems.

HD material is usually 1080 24p and standards converted (time for time) to make a pal 25p 1080i on Sony HDcam and then shipped to the UK to be reversioned.

A tape was sent labelled as pal 25p 1080i. We digitized into PT using pt 7.2 cs? on a dual 2.5ghz G5, OSX 10.4.6 HD2 Sync IO pal house sync blah blah.
We use the machine control profile HDW500 to control the Sony HDWM200P.
The tape was actually 24p - but the deck allows PT to lock with a 25fps 48khz session (no one noticed the 24p at this stage) as we took composite bitc pictures.
The prog was voiced and upon mix back problems occured dropping in onto the tape - and the 24p thing was eventually sussed. PT gave no warnings whilst digitizing.

This is not my project (oh blameless one) but now a 1080i 25pal version has been made - it drifts 2 sec over the 40 minutes. Would this be because a frame for frame conversion has been done?
What next? any advice?

cheers

2 seconds over 40 minutes is almost 0.1% so you are close to the infamous pull-down difference.

Does this sound familiar ? Was the tape true 24P originally or 23.976. This is often mistaken.

How did you digitize it? Usig which hardware?

But what does it drift against? The audio digitized from the tape against the picture? Or your re-recodrings against the tape?


frank.

[MIKEROPHONICS]

Hi Frank

It was digitized with a mojo, bitc composite sd out, aes for audio.
Not sure about 23.976. It is a standard large american tv network HD production - would guess 24 as it has video origins - but I am no NTSC authority.
The tape appears to be 24 fps - how would one tell if it was 23.976?

cheers

[epm]

Most american HD broadcast is either 59.94 or 23.976, so with that, and the fact that you are drifting around .1% i'd wager your tape is 23.976.

[rhumphries]

Originally Posted by epm

Most american HD broadcast is either 59.94 or 23.976, so with that, and the fact that you are drifting around .1% i'd wager your tape is 23.976.

Off topic: I thought that while many shows are shot and edited in 23.976, that they are actually broadcast at 29.97. Have I been misinformed? Are any networks actually broacasting at 23.976?

-richard

[BRH]

I haven't used that deck, but it should tell you on the front of it what format and frame rate it is when you load the tape.

[Steve MacMillan]

Off topic: I thought that while many shows are shot and edited in 23.976, that they are actually broadcast at 29.97. Have I been misinformed? Are any networks actually broacasting at 23.976?

Many shows are shot on 16mm film and telecined to 23.976. It is relatively easy to add pulldown frames to make it 29.97, and often the 23.976 version is played back 4% fast for 25 frame PAL (up a semitone). If you shoot at 29.97 it is a little more difficult to get it cleanly to 25 frames, or film out.

STeve

[Chief Technician]

Originally Posted by BRH

I haven't used that deck, but it should tell you on the front of it what format and frame rate it is when you load the tape.

Yes, it will. These decks reveal more information than a D-5. The D-5 will only show your system frequency, tape type, and what your reference is set to. The SRW-5500 will show you the system frequency, down conversion settings, and tape type.

[bizzle]

What are we? Video guys now?
/off topic