GigaSampler, Sound Modules and us...

[Mark_Knecht]

Hi,
This thread is for current and future GigaSampler users.

There have been a number of threads (I started one) about choosing a sound module. Obviously everyone has their preferences in sounds, but I bet there are lots out there that we'd all own if we had the money and space and time.

One the other hand, I own a DX-7 that I almost never turn on and don't want to waste an input on the 001 when I only use it once in awhile. It isn't worth enough to sell, so I keep it.

And on the third hand, I just bought a GigaSample disk of an old Prophet synth to use in GigaSampler because I liked a few sounds in the demo. Another user here purchased a disk with Mellotron sounds for the same reason. There are lots of great samples for GigaSampler, if you want to spend the money...

My thought is 'Why not use Pro Tools as an environment to sample sound modules, and then build GIG files to use in GigaSampler?'. Then, hey, 'Why don't all of us PTLE/GigaSampler users figure out how to sample all of our sound modules and synths and set up a trading zone for giving each other access to all sorts of sound module sounds that we wouldn't necessarily have the money or interest in purchasing?'

My idea is that I ought to be able to create a MIDI file that is pretty straight forward that will play the module. It plays each note, with some time between them, and plays each note at different volumes, and whatever it is that is required to build a good GIG file, and then each of us use that file to record some interesting sounds we have, and we learn to make GIG files and give them to each other for use with our Pro Tools environments.

I think this would be very easy, actually, for sounds that decay to zero over time. Probably more difficult for sounds that need to be looped.

Anyway, I'm interested and gonna start with my DX-7 just to see if I can make some headway. I'm sure I could use some help makign the MIDI file or building the GIG.

If you're interested, think it's crazy, don't think it should be done for whatever reason, then reply here or send me an email.

Cheers,
Mark

[Roy Howell]

Hey Mark,

First, I like the idea of trading sounds for free.

I know how to create an Audio sample. It would be simple, though rather time consuming, to create samples of my Sound Module sounds. But, how do you create a Midi file?

Thanks, Roy

[Mark_Knecht]

Roy,
Uh.......I dunno! ;-) j/k

Actually, I was thinking I'd just play a single note on my keyboard, and then save it. That's a MIDI file, or track of MIDI data. Then I was thinking (this is sort of just thinking out loud) that I must be able to copy that note inside of Pro Tools, right? Now, I transpose the note up a half step. Then I do that 126 more times and I cover 128 MIDI notes. If I set them in time at 10 seconds apart, then you get 10 second samples of each note, and it takes 1280 seconds, or about 20 minutes, to record.

Maybe I grab all those notes and set their volume to the 'right' value, what ever we decide that it. The best piano samples record at 4 volumes. So we could do that by modifying the volumes to 4 different levels. Now we've done 80 minutes of recording.

The best piano samples record pedal up and pedal down samples, so we can do that. Now we've recorded for 160 minutes.

The best piano samples record 'release' samples - the sound made when the key is released. We could do that too.

Anyway, I think the answer is to create that MIDI file to start, and record a few samples, and then try and make a library.

The hard thing would be that you'll have one long file that needs to be cut into 128 pieces, numbered and saved to disk. It all sounds very tedious. However, computers are good at doing tedious stuff.. Maybe we can find someone to write a program to cut the wave file apart at known places or something. I dunno...

Uh.....I dunno...that's how I started this reply, isn't it?!?!? [img]images/icons/wink.gif[/img]

Mark

[APAULOS]

Maybe we should just trade drum hits...It'll be a lot easier. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Roy Howell]

You're exactly right. This is how good ideas often begin.

But still, you're talking Audio samples. So, never having used GigaSampler, is that basically what Gigasamples are? It sounds great, because that's basically how I'm getting my very best sounds, especially percussion.

What I DON'T know, is how they actually program Midi sounds for a sound module or synth. Mark, if you could, please try to explain how GigaSampler works, basically.

NOW, couple of things... There was a topic recently, can't remember who, but he'de been hired to record a series street names and numbers for the phone book(something like that) probably for people who call Information to get addresses or numbers by phone.(Whew! what a sentence!...).

Anyway, DaBasstard suggested Strip Silence(I think), or the PT function that will take say one continuous Audio track, and separate it into sections, using each 'silent spot' as a marker.(Whew, again...)

So, that would make this chore much easier.

Roy

[Mark_Knecht]

Apaulos,
Drum samples 'might' be a lot easier. They certainly wouldn't need to be looped. I guess the question there is how you do the recording. Just do drum strikes and record, I suppose. I'm not sure this wold be any better than buying a drum library, and there are a lot available for about $100.

Roy,

Yes, GigaSampler basically plays audio samples. Not wave files, specifically, but audio samples. GigaSampler uses a file format called *.gig. They provide tools to take your wave files, or even samples used by Akai samplers, and turn them into *.gig files. But basically, it's playing audio.

The place where GigaSampler is a bit different from what you're used to thinking about is that it can layer samples on top of each other. For instance, if you hit middle C, you can hit at different volumes. If you recorded this, you'd make recordings of all of these volumes. What GigaSampler can do is take an incoming MIDI note, look at it's volume, and then pick one of these basic samples layers to work with. It then raises or lowers the volume of that layer, which gives you a more accurate sound.

Why would you want that? Because when you hit a piano key softly, the note dies out more quickly than if you hit it hard. So one audio sample played at different volumes wouldn't cover that.

Now that you mention it, I do remember that topic about stripping silence. That might be very useful.

Don't worry about the MIDI file. To make this work, I'll give you a MIDI file, you import it into a track. You play that track and capture your audio. I play the track, I record my audio. pk_hat does his, etc...

Then we work with the audio. You do a JV-1010, I do a DX-7, but we both use EXACTLY the same MIDI file.

At least that's my idea.

Mark

[FUMoney]

Mark,
When you sample sounds for Gigastudio they're wav files, not midi files. I use SoundForge to edit the wav files and then you can construct an instrument in the Gigastudio Instrument Editor. You can use different splits(2,and up to 32 splits) so you can assign different sounds to one key. This is very cool. For example,For a snare drum you could have a light tap,a medium hit, a loud hit and a loud crack with some rim all on the same key. This would require 4 different wav files and you can set the velocity to your own playing style as to when the samples triggered.

Ed

[FUMoney]

Mark,
I'm emailing you a little present.

Ed

[marcusb]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mark_Knecht:
Anyway, I'm interested and gonna start with my DX-7 just to see if I can make some headway. I'm sure I could use some help makign the MIDI file or building the GIG.

If you're interested, think it's crazy, don't think it should be done for whatever reason, then reply here or send me an email.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mark,

Not wanting to rain on your parade but I think you're making an serious amount of work for yourself here [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img] so unless you have lots of time to spare or maybe masochistic tendancies I recommend you take a look at:

* Native Instruments FM7 - I never knew FM synthesis could sound so good. It's a totally faithful softsynth emulation of the DX7, you can even sysex dumped DX7 patches

* Native Instruments Pro52 - looks like a prophet 5, sounds like a prophet 5, as far as the world is concerned it IS a prophet 5! Will also open sysex dumps of old Prophet 5 patches.

These two are much better than samples, they aren't static you have all your oscillator modulation options still open to you the whole shebang!

And before this thread degenerates again into a "we want direct connect" here's some options to give you access to this stuff:

1) Use Logic Audio ! I love PT for audio, but I love Logic even more for MIDI. It works seemlessly with the Digi001 hardware, it is an incredibly powerful audio/midi sequencer plus you get access to all your VST plugins and instruments. Depending on the projects i'm working on 80% of the time i'll be using protools, the rest i'll be using Logic. Anytime I need to do any midi stuff or remixing logic is the winner hands down.

2) Use a second machine with one of those VST hosts. This was on a thread the other day can't remember the name of it, but I had considered using scrap parts from around the studio to build up another machine with an RME lightpipe card in it to use for softsynths and have them driven over midi from my main machine.

3) Wait for direct connect. It is coming patience is the virtue here [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

With all the new 'virtual' renditions of popular hardware (ie. PPG Wave, Prophet 5, B4, FM7) big old sample libraries of old synths are looking very limited.

Just my 2 cents,
Marcus

[Mark_Knecht]

Ed,
You know, I don't know why what I wrote isn't getting understood, but obviously it isn't. Sorry I'm not explaining better. I completely agree with you and understand that the audio samples are wave files and that these wave files become the samples used by GigaSampler. I somehow have confused people about the real idea though.

Let's say you have a Roland JV-1080, and there is a sound you want to donate to a library of GIG's, and at the same time I own a DX-7 and there is a sound I want to donate also. How would we do that?

We both need to record wave files. I understand that.

The *WAY* I'm sugesting we do that is make a 'standard' MIDI file. This MIDI file would have key presses and releases for each note on the piano keyboard. I'll make that file. I'll donate it to you and anyone else who wants it.

I send that file to you. You create a new session. You import that MIDI file to a track. You set up the output of that track to your JV-1080's MIDI channel. You make a return audio track for recording. You start the recording and walk away.

20 minutes later you come back. You stop recording. You have all the sounds from your 1080 that we need to make the GIG file in one wave file.

I take the very same MIDI file, and do the same stuff. 20 minutes later I have all the audio from the DX-7.

We somehow figure out how to cut it into pieces and make GIG files. (Possibly a hard problem.) We put it in a library. Everyone who donates gets access to all the GIGs of all the synths different members have donated. These could be classic synths, or one person who buys the new Roland 5050 could do the same. Then we all get a GIG of the 5050. The 5050 owner gets gigs of all of our synths. Seems fair.

Now, I guess I'm confusing people, but that's OK. You read this on your own time and for your own reasons. I hope this helps at least explain what I'm talking about.

(It works for drums too. Play the MIDI file, record drum audio from a TR-707, make a GIG, and donate it.)

I hope this helps!!!

Mark