why is protools so spoiled in terms of it's OS enviroment and hardware profile ?

[music project]

first, this is not a rant.

i am a digidesign customer (just upgraded to PT 8) and a protools user.


i am no software engineer.

but it seems that pro tools is the most unstable and sensitive to it's operating enviroment software i have ever encountered.

not only on the DAW side but all together.

can someone with knowledge on software engineering / windows OS / pc hardware profile tell me :
- why is pro tools so "needy" and "spoiled" in comparison to other DAW's
and non music related software ?

- how can Digidesign make it better ?

- what makes some hardware compatible with protools and some not ?

- is there a magical way (other then the digi documents) to make protools
more stable, fast and relaible? and still be able to use my pc as a
computer for everyday use like internet without swiching users and hardware profiles ?

[guitardom]

long ongoing battle here. starts with the mess the code inparticular is in. rumors say it is a complete mess full of patches. pro tools has not had the ability as every other audio app to completely trash everything and rebuild from the ground up. it has just had patches and fixes every year added to it that adds to the confusion. it seems as of late they have been working on it a bit more by rebuilding the dae engine and a few things here and there.

another problem is as they are working on the software, not sure what they have in house for testing but they seem to be outdated computers and intel only. this is what relates to our hardware issues especially and it seems os issues as well.

there are a number of problems but it really seems for the first time digi is making an effort to work and listen to us a bit more as users. hopefully this trend will continue.

[DigiTechSupt]

but it seems that pro tools is the most unstable and sensitive to it's operating enviroment software i have ever encountered.

I won't necessarily argue about the 'sensitive' part - unstable, yes, because instability can be caused by many things, not all of them being the app itself.

The Pro Tools engine is based on TDM architecture, which is all real-time. It's sensitive because interruptions to real-time threads throw everything out of sync, and errors occur. Other apps aren't as sensitive to this as they are based on 'highest priority' threads and they're willing to make other compromises to avoid errors.

On Windows this is especially problematic (real-time threading) because there are SO many variables and much less rigorous driver testing on the part of manufacturers. Everything from the motherboard BIOS to the sound card or NIC drivers to the video card driver can all have an effect on real-time threads by interrupting them. I won't even get into the havoc caused by all the background apps that typical PC's have running.

- how can Digidesign make it better ?

A very good question indeed. This is something that's on ongoing battle - the TDM architecture (which is what the LE engine is based on) excludes many options that would be available if we weren't using TDM hardware. LE could be taken to a new engine, but that would require a complete rewrite and management of the application - it, essentially, would be almost twice the work (since TDM and LE share many features, development on one is easily integrated into the other).

The easier solution is a little more time and attention on the part of the end user, as a properly configured system works quite well and is very stable.

- is there a magical way (other then the digi documents) to make protools
more stable, fast and relaible? and still be able to use my pc as a
computer for everyday use like internet without swiching users and hardware profiles ?

If there were, don't you think we would have done it by now?

[The Weed]

All of the above plus the fact, on the PC side of things, there are so many choices as far as hardware combinations to actually make a computer. Hard to make a software that began life in the monolithic hardware environment of Macland work on every conceivable combination of hardware in PCland.

Add to the mix that, according to Digidesign, their audio engine is real time, and that creates even more issues. As stated above, other DAW software has been rewritten from the ground up in the last 3 years or less to take advantage of new hardware and new 64 bit operating systems. We can only hope Digidesign is going to or has already started to do the same. Given the state of the economy and the fact Avid laid off 100 or so people not too long ago, it may, for the time being, be faint hope.

Cheers,

[TOM@METRO]

Originally Posted by guitardom

there are a number of problems but it really seems for the first time digi is making an effort to work and listen to us a bit more as users. hopefully this trend will continue.

I guardedly share Guitardoms optimism. Digidesign does seems to be coming more responsive to user needs now than at any time in recent history. As we see native systems become less crippled, we become more enthusiastic. A big sign to watch for will be Digi giving us “Automatic Delay Compensation.” When we see that, we will know it’s become a new day. And the future with Digidesign will look a lot brighter to us.

[Wango]

Another option is to integrate a qualified computer into at least the LE products and market it as a single system. So, for example, the Digi 003 Factory would include the CPU, Memory, MB, FW, etc..

In other words, end consumers would have no choice of computer, it would be integrated into the system as a whole.

If the processing power were adequate, users could go through multiple software upgrades without necessarily upgrading the hardware.

The system could offer a firewire port (for external drives) and inputs for monitor, keyboard and mouse.

it would certainly give Digi complete control over hardware compatibility issues.

[The Weed]

And a lot more headaches for Digidesign that they definitely don't want. Not to mention that the bleeding edge/pioneers - you all know who you are, and we appreciate you more than you know - would never stand for not being able to hot rod the hardware.

Shane had the best idea, not Digidesign computers, but a Digidesign OS that would just be for running Pro Tools. He votes for a stripped down version of Linux. We could run a dual boot with Windows if we didn't have a dedicated audio computer. Even that I bet would be far too many headaches for Digidesign.

Cheers,

[Wango]

A Digi OS would be more of a headache than a Digi comp.

With the OS, you have the same hardware compatibility issues to contend with.
You have not solved that problem, you've only shifted the burden from one Digi software (LE) to another (the Digi OS.)

A Digi comp removes hardware from the equation altogether.
And, you only have one hardware platform on which you need to test and qualify.

Pioneers could still hot rod the hardware, but at their own risk (no different than now.)
The advantage would be that you start from a stable, base system that works for everyone.

[Craig F]

Originally Posted by Wango

Another option is to integrate a qualified computer into at least the LE products and market it as a single system. So, for example, the Digi 003 Factory would include the CPU, Memory, MB, FW, etc..

Can you say Diaxis or Opus or even Synclavier (sp?)
all dedicated but now defunct DAW/computer packages

[guitardom]

Originally Posted by Wango

Another option is to integrate a qualified computer into at least the LE products and market it as a single system. So, for example, the Digi 003 Factory would include the CPU, Memory, MB, FW, etc..

In other words, end consumers would have no choice of computer, it would be integrated into the system as a whole.

If the processing power were adequate, users could go through multiple software upgrades without necessarily upgrading the hardware.

The system could offer a firewire port (for external drives) and inputs for monitor, keyboard and mouse.

it would certainly give Digi complete control over hardware compatibility issues.

another problem here would be, how would dgi update and keep up with new hardware/cpu releases? new and faster cpu's every year, video cards are discontinued every 6 months, ram is faster and bigger every year. it would be hard to still be on an x2 system knowing the i7's are out. this day and age just would not be a very smart idea for digi.