Weird Issue With Tempo/Meter Changes

[ShaunKetterman]

Hello All,


Relatively new user, Pro Tools is kicking my butt frequently. I love the fact that it is as robust as it is, but that also means the learning curve is relatively steep compared to other DAWs.

Anyway, I've got a new session I'm putting together. It has several meter changes as well as a few tempo changes. I'm familiar with how to insert those, no worries there.

If it matters, I'm using Windows 10 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.3.0

ISSUE: Inserting a tempo change (or rather, an initial tempo at the beginning of the session) causes me to be unable to go to specific bars/beats within the session.

DETAILS:

1. I created the session and immediately went and added all of the meter changes. That was simple, no concerns

2. I went and changed the tempo of the session from the default of 120BPM to the song's starting tempo of 67.

3. The next tempo change occurs at bar 57 of my session, which coincidentally is also where a meter change occurs...which may or may not be relevant.

4. I am *unable* to put the cursor on bar/beat 57:0:0. Whether I'm in Grid or Slip mode. Since grid mode is easier, clicking anywhere on that specific location put the cursor at 56:6:479 (my meter at this point is 6/8). Additionally, if I double-click in the Main Counter and simply type in 57:0:0, it STILL changes it to 56:6:479.

5. In efforts to test and see if this ONLY happens at measures with a meter change, I tried a 2nd location, and it did the same thing. I cannot put my cursor on measure 62, where a meter change occurs. Doing this nets the cursor at 61:4:959

6. HOWEVER, yet another meter change occurs at my measure 63 and I CAN put the cursor right on 63:0:0. So I don't *think* it's related in that sense.

7. If I remove the tempo change at the beginning of the session, I can easily put the cursor anywhere with no issues.

I'm thoroughly perplexed on how to remedy this, and I'm sure this is a very simple fix. Searches for this specific issue have not netted me any results that have helped so far, so looking for any and all guidance. Thanks everyone, much appreciated!

Shaun

[ShaunKetterman]

The meter changes aren't the actual cause, but they do have an effect on where the curser goes when typing a location into the main counter.

Even if I create a brand new empty session, the first thing I try is simply changing the tempo to 67. Without doing anything else, I cannot go to 57:0:0 (take me to 56:4:959).

I can't go to 2:0:0 (1:4:959:)
I can't go to 3:0:0 (2:4:959)
I can't go to 4:0:0 (3:4:959)
I CAN go to 5:0:0, 6:0:0, and 7:0:0
I can't go to 8:0:0 (7:4:959)

The only difference above from my OP is this meter is 4/4. If I change the meter to 6/8 from the beginning

I can now go to 2:0:0
3:0:0 takes me to 2:6:479
I can now go to 4:0:0
5:0:0 take me to 4:6:479
6:0:0 take me to 5:6:479

Someone has to know what this issue is? Would anyone be willing to create a new session and test this to see the results?

Please, anything would help. Thank you,

Shaun

[ShaunKetterman]

Bump.

Also adding that the same behavior is present on my laptop. I use a cloud session to go back and forth between my PC and laptop (both have PT 2023.3.0). The laptop exhibits the exact same behavior.

Could someone PLEASE try this? New session, tempo for the session 67, any meter, and try to place your cursor on the 1 beat of the 1st 10 or so measures? If it's on my PC AND my laptop, it has to be more than just me.

The Avid team just had me reset all of my preferences which did not help.

Shaun

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by ShaunKetterman

Hello All,


Relatively new user, Pro Tools is kicking my butt frequently. I love the fact that it is as robust as it is, but that also means the learning curve is relatively steep compared to other DAWs.

Anyway, I've got a new session I'm putting together. It has several meter changes as well as a few tempo changes. I'm familiar with how to insert those, no worries there.

If it matters, I'm using Windows 10 / Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.3.0

ISSUE: Inserting a tempo change (or rather, an initial tempo at the beginning of the session) causes me to be unable to go to specific bars/beats within the session.

DETAILS:

1. I created the session and immediately went and added all of the meter changes. That was simple, no concerns

2. I went and changed the tempo of the session from the default of 120BPM to the song's starting tempo of 67.

3. The next tempo change occurs at bar 57 of my session, which coincidentally is also where a meter change occurs...which may or may not be relevant.

4. I am *unable* to put the cursor on bar/beat 57:0:0. Whether I'm in Grid or Slip mode. Since grid mode is easier, clicking anywhere on that specific location put the cursor at 56:6:479 (my meter at this point is 6/8). Additionally, if I double-click in the Main Counter and simply type in 57:0:0, it STILL changes it to 56:6:479.

5. In efforts to test and see if this ONLY happens at measures with a meter change, I tried a 2nd location, and it did the same thing. I cannot put my cursor on measure 62, where a meter change occurs. Doing this nets the cursor at 61:4:959

6. HOWEVER, yet another meter change occurs at my measure 63 and I CAN put the cursor right on 63:0:0. So I don't *think* it's related in that sense.

7. If I remove the tempo change at the beginning of the session, I can easily put the cursor anywhere with no issues.

I'm thoroughly perplexed on how to remedy this, and I'm sure this is a very simple fix. Searches for this specific issue have not netted me any results that have helped so far, so looking for any and all guidance. Thanks everyone, much appreciated!

Shaun

I'm having a difficult time figuring out what the specific issue you're trying to solve is. So, here are a couple of things.

PT 2023.3 did introduce a bug where trying to navigate/cut to a (given? random?) bar, the counter shows the wrong thing (ie - 56:6:479 instead of 57:0:0). This has been elsewhere on the DUC to be a display bug that doesn't affect the actual functions when working. I've run across it a bunch of times when editing multitrack arrangements to video/timecode, and it hasn't caused any actual harm.

If you're saying that you can't enter Tempo Changes after setting an initial tempo, you need to make sure the Conductor Ruler is enabled. (page 215 on the current manual - PT Reference Guide)

[ShaunKetterman]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

I'm having a difficult time figuring out what the specific issue you're trying to solve is. So, here are a couple of things.

PT 2023.3 did introduce a bug where trying to navigate/cut to a (given? random?) bar, the counter shows the wrong thing (ie - 56:6:479 instead of 57:0:0). This has been elsewhere on the DUC to be a display bug that doesn't affect the actual functions when working. I've run across it a bunch of times when editing multitrack arrangements to video/timecode, and it hasn't caused any actual harm.

If you're saying that you can't enter Tempo Changes after setting an initial tempo, you need to make sure the Conductor Ruler is enabled. (page 215 on the current manual - PT Reference Guide)

Kerry,

Many thanks for the response.

I guess in an effort to explain in full detail, my words can get a bit convoluted. I'm simply trying to figure out why I'm unable to put my cursor on specific beats/bars after doing a tempo change. The main counter would display the numbers/locations I listed above.

However...I think the bug you mentioned might be what I'm experiencing.

If I zoom way in, and (as an arbitrary example in the session I've been asking about) double-click the main counter:

1. I type in 3:1:000, the main counter changes the display to 2:6:479 (the cursor *appears* to be right on 3:1:000)

2. From here, without moving the cursor, if I type in the main counter 2:6:479, the cursor does not move, but the main counter auto changes to 2:6:478

3. Even trying to go to 2:6:240 changes the main counter to 2:6:239 (though the cursor again *appears* to be right smack on 2:6:240)

Pretty sure this is the bug you are referring to. I haven't experienced it outside of changing the tempo so far, so I assumed that had something to do with it. In any case, thank you for pointing that out, much appreciated!

Shaun

[massivekerry]

Originally Posted by ShaunKetterman

Kerry,

Many thanks for the response.

I guess in an effort to explain in full detail, my words can get a bit convoluted. I'm simply trying to figure out why I'm unable to put my cursor on specific beats/bars after doing a tempo change. The main counter would display the numbers/locations I listed above.

However...I think the bug you mentioned might be what I'm experiencing.

If I zoom way in, and (as an arbitrary example in the session I've been asking about) double-click the main counter:

1. I type in 3:1:000, the main counter changes the display to 2:6:479 (the cursor *appears* to be right on 3:1:000)

2. From here, without moving the cursor, if I type in the main counter 2:6:479, the cursor does not move, but the main counter auto changes to 2:6:478

3. Even trying to go to 2:6:240 changes the main counter to 2:6:239 (though the cursor again *appears* to be right smack on 2:6:240)

Pretty sure this is the bug you are referring to. I haven't experienced it outside of changing the tempo so far, so I assumed that had something to do with it. In any case, thank you for pointing that out, much appreciated!

Shaun

Yes, that sounds like the bug. I'm not sure to what degree it's been logged, but there's a long thread about it RIGHT HERE

[ShaunKetterman]

Originally Posted by massivekerry

Yes, that sounds like the bug. I'm not sure to what degree it's been logged, but there's a long thread about it RIGHT HERE

Kerry,

Thanks again, I'm tracking the bug. The Avid rep who I was working with today said there is an update scheduled for June to address it; though it sounds like the main complaint regarding the bug was on Mac, and he wasn't able to confirm that the new update will fix Windows...said it would be passed up to their engineer folks, though, so fingers crossed. In any case, thank you again for pointing this out, saving me a ton of headache right now.

Shaun

[massivekerry]

Excellent. I hope it is a fix for everyone. It may just be that more Mac people had pointed it out.