Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Other Products > MIDI

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-06-2007, 10:11 PM
doubtful guest doubtful guest is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 148
Default it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

Hi DUC people, I was wondering if anyone is using protools midi for sequencing drums tracks?
Is it possible to get something close to sample accuracy?
The last time I tried(several pt versions ago) I would get very bad timing errors regardless of what midi devices(external drum machines, reason rewire, etc) or hardware settings were used. I've gone back to using an MPC or linn9000 externally, but I'd really like to find something that integrates better with protools.
thanks!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-07-2007, 05:50 PM
Graham Hinton Graham Hinton is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Somerset
Posts: 15
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

No. Not with a USB interface and not with OSX MIDI. You'll be lucky to get events within 2ms of where they should be and with quantised errors of the same order. It is not Pro Tools fault, that is the system it gets to use and it is not up to the job. Go back to OS 9 and FreeMIDI (emulating OMS) and you'll get 0.5ms accuracy using a serial port.
The only way that MIDI could be improved now is with a dedicated FireWire interface chip and bypassing the shoddy OSX MIDI. That is not going to happen, nobody cares. Just record the sound and correct it, that's what everybody else does.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-08-2007, 07:44 AM
accession accession is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the road again... (Australia)
Posts: 1,319
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

Quote:
You'll be lucky to get events within 2ms of where they should be
Isn't the MIDI spec limited to around 1ms per MIDI event?

So 2ms (allowing for OS, USB, and latency from the MIDI device on the receiving end) sounds quite good to me.

When the CPU isn't under full steam running plug-ins, MIDI timing has never been an issue for me. However, when the going gets tough, the slop gets going.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-08-2007, 10:29 AM
DigiTechSupt's Avatar
DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
Avid
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 33,818
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

Quote:

Isn't the MIDI spec limited to around 1ms per MIDI event?
That's correct - due to the serial nature of MIDI, the more MIDI events you have going on, the more likely it is that timing accuracy will get worse. You can alleviate some of that by getting a MIDI interface that supports time-stamping with the audio application you're using (currently, only the MIDI IO will do this with Pro Tools).

While time-stamping can improve MIDI timing, it's not a catch-all. Any time you're sending a lot of MIDI data down a cable, it's going to decrease accuracy. All that time-stamping does is 'pre-cache' the MIDI data at the MIDI interface so that it can then be transmitted more accurately. Without time-stamping, MIDI events are tied to the computer clock - which, if it gets busy doing other things, can cause some timing inaccuracies. While time-stamping can improve accuracy between the computer and the MIDI interface, it cannot overcome the inherent limits on transmission speeds between the MIDI interface and your device, or your devices accuracy when playing back incoming MIDI data.

The best way to keep timing accurate is to limit the amount of MIDI data that any particular device is receiving at any one time. Filtering any non-essential messages can improve timing quite considerably.
__________________
Avid Audio Tech Support
Help us help you - read this before posting
Support FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-08-2007, 06:18 PM
filosofem filosofem is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Christchurch NZ
Posts: 11,864
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

Quote:
(currently, only the MIDI IO will do this with Pro Tools).
...and the Mbox 2 Pro for us LE users.






filosofem
__________________
Aaron Mulqueen - 001 HD Native
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-10-2007, 06:52 AM
accession accession is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: On the road again... (Australia)
Posts: 1,319
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

Quote:
Quote:
(currently, only the MIDI IO will do this with Pro Tools).
...and the Mbox 2 Pro for us LE users.


But sadly not my AMT8 despite previously statements by Digidesign suggesting otherwise.

Anyone want to buy an AMT8?



Having said that, now I have an MPB, the MB2Pro is kinda appealing...
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-10-2007, 12:26 PM
filosofem filosofem is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Christchurch NZ
Posts: 11,864
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

accession, long time no speak, I, the MB2P is quite the pocket rocket, I'm really glad I brought the thing when they first came out, she can throw a punch or two, though I'll point out that any external clocking above 48k is a no go.

Oh, and Footswitch is now supported with 7.4.










filosofem
__________________
Aaron Mulqueen - 001 HD Native
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-22-2022, 01:59 PM
jeffbruckner jeffbruckner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: london
Posts: 8
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

Midi timing has been an issue, easily corrected / reduced by avoiding 'daisy chaining'
and other simple techniques.

Protools is the worst system available, procured and marketed by Digidesign
in the same way as Apple.

Requiring a ground up rebuild, it has consistantly dissapointed users, and presented the worst interface, inability to provide basic tasks, limited interfacing , bespoke peripherals - unreliable system ingetration, unsupported previous version compatibility, incomprehensible syntax, fickle introduction and removal of software -( plugin format VST RTAS AAX) / hardware - ( Firewire etc).

Conclusion - Expensive / unreliable / to be avoided.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-25-2022, 04:58 PM
albee1952's Avatar
albee1952 albee1952 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norwich, CT
Posts: 38,442
Default Re: it it possible to get tight midi timing in protools?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbruckner View Post
Midi timing has been an issue, easily corrected / reduced by avoiding 'daisy chaining'
and other simple techniques.

Protools is the worst system available, procured and marketed by Digidesign
in the same way as Apple.

Requiring a ground up rebuild, it has consistantly dissapointed users, and presented the worst interface, inability to provide basic tasks, limited interfacing , bespoke peripherals - unreliable system ingetration, unsupported previous version compatibility, incomprehensible syntax, fickle introduction and removal of software -( plugin format VST RTAS AAX) / hardware - ( Firewire etc).

Conclusion - Expensive / unreliable / to be avoided.
Interesting as I have had almost zero issues with Midi in Pro Tools going all the way back to LE6.1. Even with my most complicated setup with a Yamaha Motif es8, Roland TD-10 and a 3rd midi keyboard all working at once(3 instrument tracks in record with Superior Drummer, MiniGrand and either DB-33 or LoungeLizard's Wurly with 2 keyboard players. I totally agree on avoiding daisy-chaining as midi latency is accumulative.
__________________
Gigabyte X79/intel i7 3930K, 32GB RAM, HD/Native, 192 IO
https://www.facebook.com/search/top/...0sound%20works


The better I drink, the more I mix

BTW, my name is Dave, but most people call me.........................Dave
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reason, Protools, midi controller timing rogee 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 8 11-15-2010 07:29 AM
Midi Timing - Protools as my workstation bobbyarey 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 08-08-2010 06:06 PM
ProTools isn´t tight enough Mr.O 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 06-05-2009 11:38 AM
MIDI TIMING BAD????? in ProTools 7.1cs5 shanabit 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 5 05-13-2006 07:07 AM
ProTools MIDI timing Dan L MIDI 24 05-03-2001 03:58 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:04 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com