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  #1  
Old 03-14-2022, 12:38 PM
glasswing glasswing is offline
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Default Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

I have a ton of questions for anyone who has migrated VI's from one machine to another. I guess the main question is, Have you had better results cold installing them to the new machine or is migrating them just as good? Cold installing could take forever and I'm always in the middle of projects.

Going from an old 5.1 Mac Pro - actually two - via Vienna Ensemble Pro server - and squeezing it into this new world of no PCIe and no internal drives is another discussion of its own. But have any of you done that and, if so, what recommendations do you have?

I'm thinking of going NVMe for the libraries (Spitfire/Ivory/Trillian/Omnisphere and many others). If any of you have experience with NVMe, how did it work for you? Which format did you use to host the NVMe? I'm looking at a couple Sonnet and OWC options currently.
Thanks

Mac Pro Studio Ultra / 128
Pro Tools Ultimate HDX
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Mac Studio Ultra / 128 RAM/2TB HD / Avid HDX Chassis / 2 X Sonnet Echo Dual NVMe Thunderbolt Docks w Samsung 970 EVO Plus (6TB) / Avid C24 / Avid 16X16 I/O Analog / Lynx Aurora 16/16 1/O Analog / Dangerous 2 Bus / Benchmark ADC1
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  #2  
Old 03-14-2022, 01:54 PM
dominicperry dominicperry is offline
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Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

New installs only. If JFreak (Moderator) was around, he'd back me up.

Apple's migration utility used to work well, but in my experience, no longer does.

On Windows, the registry made this kind of thing impossible - you would always have to install from scratch. But on MacOS, you could just copy an application and it would function (because all the components to make it work were hidden inside the "package").
I'm not sure what has changed, but many applications simply don't work unless you reinstall from scratch. And most plugins need a plugin manager installed first, before you then install the plugs themselves. I suspect there are files hidden all over the place, mostly as part of licensing and copy-protection.
Either way, I suspect that you will save time by just accepting that you must install from scratch. If you're using 2013 Trashcans, then the last time you did this was 9 years ago, so not too onerous

Dominic
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  #3  
Old 03-14-2022, 01:59 PM
dominicperry dominicperry is offline
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Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

If you want some infor on SSDs and NVMe, I recommend this really long thread,


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads...-ahci.2146725/

It is part of the MacPro sub-forum, so not an M1/Pro/Max/Ultra focussed forum, but plenty of 5.1 and 6.1 users as well as 7.1 users (who are most likely to be able to use the extra bandwidth available on NVMe drives).
If I had to make a quick decision, I'd go with Sonnet for everything and Samsung EVO for the drives.

Dominic
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  #4  
Old 03-14-2022, 02:34 PM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: England
Posts: 2,201
Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominicperry View Post
New installs only. If JFreak (Moderator) was around, he'd back me up.

Apple's migration utility used to work well, but in my experience, no longer does.

On Windows, the registry made this kind of thing impossible - you would always have to install from scratch. But on MacOS, you could just copy an application and it would function (because all the components to make it work were hidden inside the "package").
I'm not sure what has changed, but many applications simply don't work unless you reinstall from scratch. And most plugins need a plugin manager installed first, before you then install the plugs themselves. I suspect there are files hidden all over the place, mostly as part of licensing and copy-protection.
Either way, I suspect that you will save time by just accepting that you must install from scratch. If you're using 2013 Trashcans, then the last time you did this was 9 years ago, so not too onerous

Dominic
I think you need to differentiate between the software/plug-in installations which I agree you need to do from scratch and the content/library installation which you don’t need to install from scratch. Simply copy the data to the new system.

The process of relinking content to new software installations is pretty straightforward in most cases and there have been very few times I’ve had to re-download any content. Just as well because I would need to re-download 6TB of data here! Native Instruments actually encourages you not to re-download content and relink..

There’s info on doing it here with useful links:
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...ibrary-content

Spectrasonics info here.
https://www.spectrasonics.net/suppor...&categoryID=21
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  #5  
Old 03-14-2022, 02:40 PM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

Quote:
Originally Posted by glasswing View Post
I have a ton of questions for anyone who has migrated VI's from one machine to another. I guess the main question is, Have you had better results cold installing them to the new machine or is migrating them just as good? Cold installing could take forever and I'm always in the middle of projects.

Going from an old 5.1 Mac Pro - actually two - via Vienna Ensemble Pro server - and squeezing it into this new world of no PCIe and no internal drives is another discussion of its own. But have any of you done that and, if so, what recommendations do you have?

I'm thinking of going NVMe for the libraries (Spitfire/Ivory/Trillian/Omnisphere and many others). If any of you have experience with NVMe, how did it work for you? Which format did you use to host the NVMe? I'm looking at a couple Sonnet and OWC options currently.
Thanks

Mac Pro Studio Ultra / 128
Pro Tools Ultimate HDX

See my other post above about reinstalling libraries.

I would go with Sonnet over OWC, especially as the Sonnet M.2 4x4 is now fanless. Not that I’ve ever heard the fan in my older version that has one. The OWC Accelsior 4M2 is a x4 card whereas the Sonnet is 4x4, 4 lanes for each NVMe blade and so faster. The new OWC Accelsior 8M2 has a very large fan!
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  #6  
Old 03-14-2022, 02:49 PM
dominicperry dominicperry is offline
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Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsdy View Post
I think you need to differentiate between the software/plug-in installations which I agree you need to do from scratch and the content/library installation which you don’t need to install from scratch. Simply copy the data to the new system.

The process of relinking content to new software installations is pretty straightforward in most cases and there have been very few times I’ve had to re-download any content. Just as well because I would need to re-download 6TB of data here! Native Instruments actually encourages you not to re-download content and relink..
Ah, yes, good point. Agree - although it does depend on whether your particular sample libraries support this kind of linking. I had problems with SD3 and ended up downloading it all again last time I did an install. Perhaps there was a way and I didn't find it.

Spectrasonics I have on USB disks......

Dominic
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  #7  
Old 03-14-2022, 02:53 PM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

Quote:
Originally Posted by dominicperry View Post
Ah, yes, good point. Agree - although it does depend on whether your particular sample libraries support this kind of linking. I had problems with SD3 and ended up downloading it all again last time I did an install. Perhaps there was a way and I didn't find it.

Spectrasonics I have on USB disks......

Dominic
Actually now you mention it, SD3 was problematic here too and I had to re-download it. In my case I think it was because the original installation was from way before they introduced their proprietary installation/authorisation app.
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2022, 05:02 PM
glasswing glasswing is offline
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Location: vancouver Island b.c. Canada
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Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

Oh! this is great info. Extremely good info and saved me some serious gnashing of teeth trying to decide on the information provided by the vendors. I have been in close touch with Sonnet and they are very good, responsive people. I'll get the Avid Expansion Chassis for the HDX card just because I don't want to or have much time for tinkering and because it should have its own TBolt port to itself. So part of my angst is settled.
The Sonnet Echo III / Sonnet PCIe card will be for the VI samples.

My indecisiveness with the Sonnet Echo III / Sonnet PCI card is that I will probably only use one PCIe card in it. I guess that's okay.

Do you guys know of a good solution for my old SSD drives? I'd like to use them and have looked at various solutions to host them but can't make up my mind. Maybe I can use them for Pro Tools sessions? Good idea? I could make them into a Raid 0 maybe? I don't think it's a good idea to use the NVMe TBolt port for Pro Tools data or the Sonnet Echo III etc port. Mac Studio Ultra has four discreet ports.
Thoughts?

Thanks so much!
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Mac Studio Ultra / 128 RAM/2TB HD / Avid HDX Chassis / 2 X Sonnet Echo Dual NVMe Thunderbolt Docks w Samsung 970 EVO Plus (6TB) / Avid C24 / Avid 16X16 I/O Analog / Lynx Aurora 16/16 1/O Analog / Dangerous 2 Bus / Benchmark ADC1
www.glasswing.com
www.richardsales.com
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  #9  
Old 03-15-2022, 01:00 AM
Marsdy Marsdy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2009
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Posts: 2,201
Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

Quote:
Originally Posted by glasswing View Post
Oh! this is great info. Extremely good info and saved me some serious gnashing of teeth trying to decide on the information provided by the vendors. I have been in close touch with Sonnet and they are very good, responsive people. I'll get the Avid Expansion Chassis for the HDX card just because I don't want to or have much time for tinkering and because it should have its own TBolt port to itself. So part of my angst is settled.
The Sonnet Echo III / Sonnet PCIe card will be for the VI samples.

My indecisiveness with the Sonnet Echo III / Sonnet PCI card is that I will probably only use one PCIe card in it. I guess that's okay.

Do you guys know of a good solution for my old SSD drives? I'd like to use them and have looked at various solutions to host them but can't make up my mind. Maybe I can use them for Pro Tools sessions? Good idea? I could make them into a Raid 0 maybe? I don't think it's a good idea to use the NVMe TBolt port for Pro Tools data or the Sonnet Echo III etc port. Mac Studio Ultra has four discreet ports.
Thoughts?

Thanks so much!
I used to use the older TB2 version of this with my old Trashcan.
https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/uk/...magicmultidock

I had two of them and the SSDs were in RAID 0 pairs for samples with one for Pro Tools sessions. You won’t get the full SSD SATA speed of 550MB/sec, they run at about 384MB/sec but a RAID 0 pair is 740MB/sec. I personally found 384MB/sec easily fast enough for Pro Tools sessions.

Not 100% sure about Sonnet Echo III/Sonnet PCIe card combination. I’m not sure it’s even supported. Thunderbolt 3 only supports 4 lanes of PCIe so you won’t get the performance of the Sonnet NVMe card’s 4x4 lanes. (BTW, TB4 only supports ONE Lane of PCIe. One NVMe drive supports 4 lanes!) That would equate to less than 3000MB/sec rather than 8000MB/s. 3000MB/sec is still fast but the points is, the Sonnet Echo III/Sonnet PCIe card combo is overkill over Thunderbolt I think.

If it were me I’d be looking at one of these:
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/e...y-thunderbolt3
You’re maxing out NVMe performance over Thunderbolt and it’s also a lot cheaper!
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  #10  
Old 03-15-2022, 10:34 AM
glasswing glasswing is offline
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Default Re: Migrating VI's from old Mac Pro to Mac Studio Ultra

Yeah I looked at that. The guy at Sonnet said it's fast, but you can only get 1500 mb/s per card if used individually - whereas the PCIe has 2700 per NVMe. But I guess I could just make a 4TB Raid0 (at 3000) and put all my libraries on that. I did worry about the economy of the PCIe arrangement. Plus it's more $$$. This will make the Head of the War Department (wife) happy. Thanks
I still would like to find a way to use my SATA SSD's. I was thinking of using them - on another TBolt port - for Pro Tools sessions/data. I'll look back through the other replies and see if anyone had good ideas.
Thanks again
__________________
Mac Studio Ultra / 128 RAM/2TB HD / Avid HDX Chassis / 2 X Sonnet Echo Dual NVMe Thunderbolt Docks w Samsung 970 EVO Plus (6TB) / Avid C24 / Avid 16X16 I/O Analog / Lynx Aurora 16/16 1/O Analog / Dangerous 2 Bus / Benchmark ADC1
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www.richardsales.com
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