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Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
Like many here, I’m still on Ventura, but I know the day will come when I “must” upgrade to Sonoma, so I wanted to ask some questions about that.
When opting to use a newer operating system does anyone here choose to completely reinstall the OS onto the newer version as a means of starting fresh? Or does just upgrading work well enough? I cam from an Intel Mac and used Migration Assistant (before I knew better) so my thought is that starting fresh could be good, but it may be totally unnecessary. As far as licensing goes, I’ve just made a list of all of my licenses and which method of activation they use. Seemingly, one would have to unregister any machine based licenses in order to not lose them in either process of upgrading or reinstalling the operating system. Copy and paste license keys, in most cases just need the key pasted into the plugin in order to work, so I believe those don’t usually have a way to be unregistered anyway. And ironically with all of the iLok hate, licenses that live on the iLok dongle are safely stored there, so nothing to worry about in that case. The only other license type outliers I found were ones that after purchasing and downloading don’t need a license key (small developers only) and UAD with their licenses tied to hardware which is also a non-issue. I believe this covers the main license types of how to approach this but I would love for anyone to chime in if there’s anything I might be possibly missing here to ensure a smooth transition when it is time. Mainly, who here chooses to reinstall macOS instead of upgrading? I’m definitely leaning towards reinstalling so I can be sure anything Intel related is gone for good and I have clean slate. I’m just trying to find a safe approach that works so I’m ready and can rely on it going forward. Many thanks!
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Pro Tools Ultimate 2024.10 MacBook Pro 16" Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32 GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Ventura 13.6.9 |
#2
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
Copy all your necessary files to another volume, then boot into recovery mode, wipe the old and then install OS. to empty volume.
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Janne What we do in life, echoes in eternity. |
#3
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
Uh no lets not advocate starting by deliberately destroying stuff just to try to upgrade an OS.
Before doing anything else make sure you have known usable backups that are detached from the computer (to prevent finger problems destroying the backups). There are many instructions on the Internet describing how to do an clean macOS install onto a new volume, but the outline is... Create a APFS volume for the new installation. If you don't have space on the internal SSD get an external SSD (and disable security settings so it's bootable). Download and run the new macOS installer from your current installation. When asked where to do the install point it at the new volume you just created. Now you have a new bootable volume and your old bootable volume is still in place, any problems you just reboot back to that. If you have large sample libraries on the old boot partition you might point to them there while testing stuff if there is not enough space. Test stuff works as you go. Test with built-in output (or whatever is is called). Install interface drivers and plugins making sure you are working from clean download latest installers drivers and install any other apps needed. Do not use migration assistant to move apps or drivers to the new installation, it's OK for moving user accounts and general documents if you don't know how to do that manually. Eventually when everything is working OK you can delete the old boot volume. You may want to wait until Sequoia ships, unless you have critical issues you need to try to solve today. I know you have had a bunch of issues so maybe you do need to do that. But be aware that Sequoia just went into public beta, and it's been pain free for me running Pro Tools in the developer betas. But YMMV. Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 08-29-2024 at 11:27 AM. |
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
I clone my OS disk for backup (or update my already existing clone to the current working state). Then I simply run the MacOS install on the system drive as Apple intended and continue to work without the need to reinstall everything.
I've never run into issues. Ever. I do a clean install only if I actually want a clean install or when it's a big leap forward. But Ventura to Sonoma, I would just run it and see how it goes. |
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
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Our company has upgraded several Macs from Ventura to Sonoma (and I've done a bunch at home), all via the System Settings menu, and all went swimmingly. |
#6
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
And the person y'all are giving bad advice too is currently having multiple problems and a clean install may be a very good idea.
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
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Same computer, upgrade in place. New computer, new install. We can't afford downtime to wipe and reinstall everything needed on the machine. Especially with multiple machines. Which is another reason why I sit out on updates until absolutely necessary - I'll wait for all the early birds here to report issues
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~Will |
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
Hey Darryl! Thanks for your responses as always.
Forgive the obvious questions about this… The known useable backup detached from the computer is comprised of which elements of data? I have all of my sessions and sample libraries on a T9 and a mirrored backup on another T9 so that part is sorted, thanks to you also helping me reformat the drives correctly :) The computer only has software on it, which I wouldn’t think separately from the operating system in itself has any value in being backed up? And then is the process you are describing for doing a clean macOS install on a new volume Sonoma or Sequoia in theory here? It’s tough to imagine making another volume internally (makes me nervous), but if one chooses to make the new volume on an external SSD, how must the new OS be migrated to just being able to be used externally to internally? Bootable volumes and rebooting are new concepts to me and I don’t want to get anything wrong. Of course happy to research myself if I know what exactly to look up and of course I welcome more explanation here so I can get this right. Definitely noted regarding about testing stuff as I go and not using Migration Assistant for any reason. Yes, I’m definitely curious about Sequoia, but I would just think as soon as it’s released Avid will say “do not update for any reason,” unless something changes from how I’ve heard this has gone. Yes though, I do have some issues. Honestly, I’m just hoping Sonoma or Sequoia fixes the white lines in dark mode horizontal zoom issue for me, because it’s been there forever and I do enjoy dark mode. I am talking to support about that now but already tried everything on the end of settings for display and it’s the same no matter what so curious what they’ll say. Glad Sequoia has been good so far though! And just to clarify, even when upgrading the OS and not reinstalling, best practice is still to deauthorize machine based licenses for safety and reauthorize them after upgrading, right? Even if I spend a full day doing this, it might be worth it for me if things are smoother going forward.
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Pro Tools Ultimate 2024.10 MacBook Pro 16" Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32 GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Ventura 13.6.9 |
#9
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
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The other options for backing up applications, plugins, samples, the operating system itself are secondary, affect how easy and fast it might be to recover a system. Importantly they protect you from problems where even if you go though reinstalling everything after some failure it does not work, or maybe a license won't activate, there are so many thing that can go wrong there I would not want to have to hope everything will just reinstall and work, certainly not while under time pressure/other folks are waiting for stuff. So yes I sure would have systems backup as well as separate backups/archives of content. The simple/standard way of doing system backups is to clone the whole boot volume (which might be a whole disk or part of it, or you might clone the whole drive and multiple volumes on it, or just the boot volume and not clone others, all depends on your setup and goals). On Macs the go to cloning product is Carbon Copy Cloner, that lets you create bootable clones, or let you create clones and then incrementally update them, but those are not bootable... that's a limitation of APFS and Mac security. Having a smaller boot volume containing apps but not containing say samples can help here, the samples can be on the same internal drive, just not on the boot volume. Carbon Copy Cloner's web site/blog is one of the best sources of information about backing up Macs. Quote:
The hard determinant is is there sufficient space on the internal SSD for another macOS install. You can add an external drive and then play with making volumes on that, even if you later actually make the boot volume on the internal drive. Most new external drive will need you to format them/create at least the initial volume since they won't come formatted APFS. My big thing is don't set fire to the bridge you are standing on, but folks do that all the time. Don't start this stuff by trashing the running system you have, even if you want to do an in-situ update (I'd not recommend that for your case) then clone the current boot disk and update the clone. If there is a problem you just reboot the system off the existing boot drive. The *worst* thing that should happen is you need to reboot the computer. Quote:
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#10
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Re: Best Practices When “Upgrading” or Reinstalling macOS to a Newer Version
Yes, luckily all important content is already backed up. Noted about cloud storage. I never thought about using cloud storage for anything given how disruptive iCloud Drive is to Pro Tools if saving sessions within the Documents folder for example. But of course there are other cloud services and they don’t have to be backing up your data while you are working. By restoring them onto a different computer, do you mean trying to open PT sessions on a different computer? My old Intel Mac probably couldn’t take it, the specs are very low. I’ve definitely been vigilant about using the “copy drag and dropped audio files to session audio files folder” or whatever it is called. The only other thing is file management with samplers which I’ve been working towards developing a system for. If only Pro Tools had “collect all and save” like Ableton which addresses audio files used in samplers… I would think though that things should open up ok for the most part, probably not perfectly though. Luckily though there is nothing else to back up. I use Apple’s Notes app with my iCloud account and keep a lot of stuff in Google Drive on 2 different email accounts. I don’t keep anything anywhere else. Files in the Documents folder are just from installing plugins. I never thought about an HDD before for long term storage so thanks for mentioning that. I assumed I’d just have a pile of SSDs accumulating over time but maybe not.
Thanks for clarifying that “other options for backing up applications, plugins, samples, the operating system itself are secondary.” I’ll take your word that even though reinstalling things and reactivating license should work, strange issues can still come up that are hard to track down. “The simple/standard way of doing system backups is to clone the whole boot volume (which might be a whole disk or part of it, or you might clone the whole drive and multiple volumes on it, or just the boot volume and not clone others, all depends on your setup and goals).” This is a bit over my head, but I imagine if I have a look at Disk Utility while I’m referencing this I’ll understand a bit better. Are you saying that clones made that are incrementally updated are therefore not bootable while a clone you make without updates is bootable? I’ll definitely have a read from the Carbon Copy Cloner website. It looks like I can create bootable backups on ChronoSync so I should look into that if it can get the same task done equally well since I already own a license for it so I can mirror the T9s. I’ll definitely read that link! You’re suggesting, just try to create and delete a volume just to see how this works? I’ll try my best to understand all of this so I just don’t make a mistake! Is the correct level (wrong term) where Macintosh HD is to make a new volume?Screenshot attached. Noted regarding internal space for another macOS install. I imagine that since Sonoma is about 8gb or so at least according to system settings, even if Ventura is similar to that, there is ample room. But I may be misunderstanding the storage implications for this. I still may be more comfortable doing this on an external drive, but then I imagine I have to do the process of moving it internally to boot from there? Because if I started doing work and finding it working well for me, I’d of course want to move it into the computer right? How would I word that properly so I research? I would just think playing with volumes wouldn’t make sense unless the goal was to move my work into the computer ultimately? And yes I learned my lesson about the exFAT situation! Thanks for the reminder to not just trash the system. I mean it’s honestly a little tempting to start with just updating. Even if something comes up it’ll have to happen at some point any there’s only so much stuff I need. What is an in-situ update? I’d think if I cloned the current boot disk and updated the clone than I’d have those licenses activated in 2 places at once? That makes perfect sense regarding migration assistant. Since I have no documents stored on the computer at all except for what downloading plugins puts in your Documents folder, I’m totally happy and was planning to just make a new user account with the same name. Not familiar with UID and GID though, what are they? iCloud Drive has been off for me ever since I realized the harm it was doing! If I was to start with by making a new volume with a test user account with Sonoma, I assume it’s fairly easy to delete? I suppose I could always feel out Pro Tools with no plugins installed on Sonoma for a bit and try to assess, but would hope to just figure it out and move forward. Installing in batches and assessing makes sense though, just seems tough to commit to doing! But I see how this process is good for determining issues. I’d also assume if it’s going well I’d want to move it internally. Sorry to be kind of talking in circles about this, but I believe I’m understanding a bit better. I’m still a bit daunted by cloning the current system with its machine based licenses while upgrading the system that’s internal to the computer if that’s the most logical method and what you are suggesting? I see what you’re saying about working in batches, but I’m not sure which licenses managers let you deauthorize licenses from a device that you aren’t currently using except Plugin Alliance on their website, but I’m sure you’re right that they are more. A lot for me to learn, grasp and consider here. Thanks again for taking the time to write such thorough responses and give thoughtful advice.
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Pro Tools Ultimate 2024.10 MacBook Pro 16" Apple M2 Pro with 12‑core CPU, 19‑core GPU, 16‑core Neural Engine 32 GB unified memory 1TB SSD storage Ventura 13.6.9 |
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