Click Track not functioning correctly with mixed / odd time signatures

[boxofgeese]

There are so many helpful people on here that give up their time to assist helpless folks like me, so I'll try to make this as clear as possible! I've already tried to search this issue online (and this forum) but haven't found anyone with my exact issue.

I'm setting up sessions with tempos & time sigs for a major recording project with very long and complex songs. Many of the songs have multiple different time signatures, and I'm experiencing some erratic click issues when dealing with odd times (like 7/8 and 5/8, and even 6/8). The drummer likes to hear an accented quarter note with 16th note subdivisions, which works perfectly in 4/4, 2/4, and 3/4. But when the song changes into unevenly divided time signatures, the click is simply disappearing for the last few 16th notes of every bar.

To explain what I mean, I made a short "test click" to show you guys what's happening. In all these examples, you'll hear 2 measures of 4/4, followed by 4 measures of 7/8.
I'm counting it like this in my head:
Bar1(4/4): 1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a
Bar2(4/4): 1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e+a
Bar3(7/8): 1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e
Bar4(7/8): 1e+a 2e+a 3e+a 4e
Bar5 same
Bar6 same


Here's what the click SHOULD sound like, as quickly played by me on drumsticks:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Sticks-correct.mp3

Here's the same audio of me clicking the sticks, PLUS the misbehaving click as well. Notice the click becomes silent in the last few 16th notes of the 7/8 measures:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Stic...ks_correct.mp3

Here is JUST the misbehaving click from the previous example. Note the missing notes and erratic accents in 7/8 measures. In order to have the quarter notes accented but still have all 16th notes filled in, I set Click II's "Follow Meter" option OFF initially. (There's also a screen shot of my click settings.)
Audio:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Clic..._meter_OFF.mp3
Screen shot:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Clic..._meter_OFF.png

Just to see if it was an issue with the Click II plugin, I tried setting "Follow Meter" to ON, but of course then it was missing the 16th note subdivisions:
Audio:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Clic..._ON_normal.mp3
Screen shot:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Clic..._ON_normal.png

Of course I'm aware I can change the click speed to 16th notes, so I tried that next, but then none of the main quarter notes are accented:
Audio:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Clic...N_adjusted.mp3
Screen shot:
http://richbozek.com/temp_click/Clic...N_adjusted.png


I'm using PT11.2.1 on a Macbook pro with plenty of RAM and CPU. I'm also aware PT 11 had some pretty bad click issues about a year ago, but I'm under the impression they were all patched.

Any ideas? Between all these variations I'm SO CLOSE to getting exactly what I need. Time to turn it over to the real experts - you guys!
Thanks in advance for your reply.

[boxofgeese]

No one else has had these issues? I'm surprised. I can't be the only one with multi-time-sig tracks.

Giving this post a gentle bump.

So...

bump!

[s.d. finley]

normally when I record bands I keep all the basic song tracks in one big session to make overdubbing easy and then when mixing I will put each song in its own session. Last week I had a band in and we had multiple tempo changes and meter changes back and forth with no issues. 4/4 to 3/4 and 6/8 no problem. I am on PTHD 8.01 of course....

[priorytools]

Hhmm. If you want to get on with the session, how about programming a MIDI beatbox plugin, xpand maybe, click track & recording it.

[boxofgeese]

Originally Posted by s.d. finley

normally when I record bands I keep all the basic song tracks in one big session to make overdubbing easy and then when mixing I will put each song in its own session. Last week I had a band in and we had multiple tempo changes and meter changes back and forth with no issues. 4/4 to 3/4 and 6/8 no problem. I am on PTHD 8.01 of course....

Yeah, most of those meter changes still work fine, but 6/8 still doesn't. It's really weird. Never encountered this before.

Side note, that sounds like a good method - I'll keep that in mind for simpler sessions. How do you give them a click if it's all in one big session? Do you just make changes in the tempo ruler up top?

[boxofgeese]

Originally Posted by priorytools

Hhmm. If you want to get on with the session, how about programming a MIDI beatbox plugin, xpand maybe, click track & recording it.

Yeah, my searches so far have turned up nothing, so it may come to that. It's definitely an acceptable alternative, I just wanted to avoid it if possible. I keep hoping I'm just making a simple "face-palm" mistake so I can just feel dumb for a while and then get on with my life :)

[s.d. finley]

Originally Posted by boxofgeese

Yeah, most of those meter changes still work fine, but 6/8 still doesn't. It's really weird. Never encountered this before.

Side note, that sounds like a good method - I'll keep that in mind for simpler sessions. How do you give them a click if it's all in one big session? Do you just make changes in the tempo ruler up top?

Yes I will change the tempo on the top ruler bar on a per song basis along with the meter if needed. Works perfectly fine with the exception of the first click not being heard if I start right on the 1 bar in grid mode so I will move the transport just a little behind the 1 bar.
Question, you are also using the top ruler bar for tempo and meter changes?

[boxofgeese]

Originally Posted by s.d. finley

Question, you are also using the top ruler bar for tempo and meter changes?

Yes, I am. I need all the bars to be precise because down the line there are going to be lots of musicians overdubbing and many will need precise instructions (such as "start the line in bar 64, and let it trail over into bar 72" or what-have-you).

[huzzam]

I've had problems with the click plugin ever since upgrading to pt11, when using odd time signatures. I never found a solution, and ended up just programming my own clicks using other midi instruments...

~peter in Istanbul

[s.d. finley]

Originally Posted by boxofgeese

Yes, I am. I need all the bars to be precise because down the line there are going to be lots of musicians overdubbing and many will need precise instructions (such as "start the line in bar 64, and let it trail over into bar 72" or what-have-you).

Ya know one thing I noticed, with the guys I am recording there are no meter changes during a song, just 4/4 or 6/8 and 3/4. Maybe thats the difference in our scenarios. Changing meter during the song is throwing PTs click off?