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  #1  
Old 06-12-2002, 02:20 AM
maxx maxx is offline
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Default Pro Tools request #2: Lock MIDI tempo/meter info to timeline

Here's an example...

1) Composing music for picture (rough cut), say a 64 bar piece. You do your arrangement - midi, audio, loops, whatever.

2) You receive revised "final cut" of picture and find you have to make changes early on in the piece to match the new cut, but... aside from a few changes early in the piece, you wish to keep everything later in the session the same (including the subsequent midi arrangement info: tempo/meter, etc).

Here's where it gets weird. While the audio in the session can be moved in a sensible, predictable fashion, the midi information is forever stuck in a hellish "shuffle" mode - a change made in the first minute of the piece disrupts EVERYTHING midi-wise from that point.

Question:

Would it be possible to implement some sort of midi region/timeline locking capability for tempo and meter so that one could limit the automatic recalculating of midi arrangement info to a pre-defined range of time - and leave the subsequent midi bar/beat/tempo/meter information intact.

Take a 64 measure cue. I want to revise bars 12 - 16 but everything after bar 18 can (and should) remain unchanged.

In my perfect world I'd be able to "lock" my midi regions (or tempo/meter maps in the ruler display) so that everything from measure 18 remains unchanged regardless of what I do between bars 12 - 16. I understand there might be some drastic tempo recalculations necessary to fill in the "dead space" between the end of "revised" bar 16 and the beginning of "locked" bar 18 but that would surely beat having the entire midi arrangement from that point disrupted.

Does this make sense, anyone???

thanks,

maxx
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Old 06-14-2002, 01:59 AM
maxx maxx is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools request #2: Lock MIDI tempo/meter info to timeline

bump...
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Old 06-14-2002, 04:07 AM
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DetroitT DetroitT is online now
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Default Re: Pro Tools request #2: Lock MIDI tempo/meter info to timeline

Does this make sense, anyone???
Yes!
~~~~
In a MIDI App this is resolved by having sub sequences built and on a master time line.
Which is an option while in midi mode. (most midi sequencer's will work in TDM / DAE)

I work by printing all midi into audio then export a
"standard midi file" (SMF) for each of the cues or music.
(This is time consuming when changes are needed but works.

a " celled sequencer / tc" of sorts, would be a very nice innovation!
( midi region / tempo/ meter lock to time code location)

Maybe a SMF player plugin each with it's own set of parameters ?
for this you would still nee a midi seq. for building.
So i'm back to the " Cell sequencer" of my first thought.

I wouldn't want to lose the all in one window elegance of Protools though.
After all Audio rules.

Other views???
Thomas.
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Old 06-14-2002, 04:24 AM
Beatstreet Beatstreet is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools request #2: Lock MIDI tempo/meter info to timeline

Maxx- well stated. It's the only thing that the sequencer lacks, for me anyway.

You have to be able to lock in tempo/meter changes so that making a change in minute 1 doesnt affect a cue in minute 5!

For scoring, I'd like to stay in PT and not have to go elsewhere for sequencing!

Serious ommission. I'm sure it's on the drawing board.

Adrian?, anyone at Digi?
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Old 06-14-2002, 09:14 AM
maxx maxx is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools request #2: Lock MIDI tempo/meter info to timeline

Thanks guys for chiming in here. Nice to know I'm not the only one feeling the need.

DetroitT: yes audio does rule! I've always loved the process of recording more than sequencing. That being said, when doing music for picture or even laying down guides for a song, midi becomes part of the process.

I used to piggyback Vision on top of Pro Tools via the IAC driver but as you stated "This is time consuming when changes are needed". I was soooo happy to be able to work in one application when PT finally became somewhat midi-capable.

Aside from this major shortcoming (and the lack of streamlined "groove quantize"/"groove template" functions (Vision did have it's strong points) I could be fairly content and will probably tough it out just to stay in one program. It's a shame though... I wish I could love the midi funtionality as much as I do the audio side of the program.

As Beatstreet puts it so well... For scoring, I'd like to stay in PT and not have to go elsewhere for sequencing!

Pro Tools has been marketed as a TOTAL solution for music. Most of my work ends up being 70% audio and 30% midi BUT, the midi REALLY needs to be intuitive and transparent... and it actually is... in every respect except the critical issues we're talking about here. This should really be addressed.

Anyone from Digi have any input on the subject???

Best,
maxx
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Old 06-14-2002, 09:31 AM
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ekuehnl ekuehnl is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools request #2: Lock MIDI tempo/meter info to timeline

Quote:
In my perfect world I'd be able to "lock" my midi regions (or tempo/meter maps in the ruler display) so that everything from measure 18 remains unchanged regardless of what I do between bars 12 - 16. I understand there might be some drastic tempo recalculations necessary to fill in the "dead space" between the end of "revised" bar 16 and the beginning of "locked" bar 18 but that would surely beat having the entire midi arrangement from that point disrupted.
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you tried splitting MIDI data into discrete regions and then using the "lock region" command? Also, are you using identify beat or tempo and meter change from the MIDI menu?

I seem to be able to do all the things you are having problems with: Change tempo and meter in a previous bar without changing subsequent information, etc.

-Eric
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  #7  
Old 06-17-2002, 09:51 PM
maxx maxx is offline
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Default Re: Pro Tools request #2: Lock MIDI tempo/meter info to timeline

Eric, to respond to your post above:

...Have you tried splitting MIDI data into discrete regions and then using the "lock region" command?

No. I'll certainly give this a try!

...Also, are you using identify beat or tempo and meter change from the MIDI menu?

Absolutely. This is how I initiate tempo or meter changes (I hit "command-I" to bring up tempo/meter dialog).

...I seem to be able to do all the things you are having problems with: Change tempo and meter in a previous bar without changing subsequent information, etc.

This is most encouraging! I'll try splitting and locking those midi regions.

thanks,
maxx
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