HD Native Thunderbolt & Playback engine update

[danuk]

Hi there,

BACKGROUND
I have the HD Native Thunderbolt that was purchased a number of years ago (2014-2016). Back then I was using PT10. Worked fine.

It was packed away and I have recently bought a new Mac. Mac Studio M1 Max system.

ISSUE
The issue is that when opening Pro Tools Intro/ Or Logic X, there is no option to apply the HD Native Thunderbolt as I/O. It doesn't appear.

TRIED
I can see the HD Native Thunderbolt showing in the System Information app through the Thunderbolt port.

I have installed the Avid HD Driver 23.3 and have done so via the "recovery mode" method that allows Kernel extensions etc.

CURRENT PROBLEM
I can see the warning as I launch PT intro that the HD Native Thunderbolt requires a firmware update and can be done so by selecting the device in the playback engine.
However, once PT is open and I click to open the playback engine window - again the device is not available to select, it doesn't appear in the list.

Please help - any suggestions or thoughts?

[smurfyou]

HD Native probably requires PT Ultimate.

[Darryl Ramm]

^^^ As pointed out DigiLink Systems requires Pro Tools Ultimate and will not work with Intro, Artist or Studio. (DigiLink interfaces just will not show up as playback engine options in those versions, there are no other warnings/signs. i.e. likely exactly what you are seeing).

But if the firmware did upgrade OK and the driver is working OK then you should be able to access the interface (and it needs a DigiLink interface box connected) from Logic Pro. If not...

... who knows if Intro can actually update the firmware correctly, maybe it can, maybe it bricks the box. I doubt any other users here know. Not something I'd probably try without somebody from Avid saying it's OK to do.

What DigiLink interfaces do you own? HD Native systems really have no benefit over good USB or Firewire interfaces, and DigiLink often involves a lot more faffing around and driver/software issues and less responsive support than you'll get from other interface vendors. And you need to upgrade to Ultimate, which is a waste unless you need it's software features. I would be thinking about selling off any of this gear and going with USB or Firewire interfaces. HDX is a different story if you need HDX capabilities. I expect prices for older DigiLink gear to slide significantly over time, may be a reason to sell sooner.

[danuk]

Thank you for the insight

I have a HD Omni unit which is being fed through the HD Native.
It seems absolutely insane that I would need PT ultimate software. The unit has 2 mic/line inputs! Why would a unit that small require the largest available plan?

I'm unsure what you mean by a Digilink System - can you explain Darryl?

I'm thinking maybe I just install PT Ultimate for a month to be able to update the firmware - then it should work for a Logic Pro X right?


I've not use any DAW since about 2015. The subscription model seems nonsensical to me. They must have lost a lot of users to rival brands. Are Avid even the market leader anymore?

[Darryl Ramm]

A DigiLink system is any system that wait for it... uses DigiLink cables to connect to the interfaces. DigilLink are those cables going from the Thunderbolt HD native Box to your Omni. The Omni is a DigiLink interface, it's the only way it connects to anything as an interface..

It does not matter what you feel or think about this. DigilLink systems require a Avid Ultimate license to work. It's all spelt out in the systems requirements. And this has *always* been the case, with Pro Tools HD before Pro Tools Ultimate you should have been aware of this when you purchased the hardware.

The economic stupidity of this is why I pointed out it often makes more sense to get off DigiLink onto good quality USB or Thunderbolt interfaces.

You can try an Ultimate subscription for a month, and see if you can update the firmware, but maybe the unit is bricked, who knows. Do you have somebody with a system you can test the HDN box on? Again I'm just not sure why any of this is worth it, I'd sell that hardware (untested if need be) and go buy a nice USB or Thunderbolt interface... more compact, likely more features, quieter (no fans), possibly lower latency, better/current vendor support, etc. An Omni is nice as a control room box if you have a rack of DigiLink interfaces to add it to, but in this situation, it's likely just not got much going for it. The fallacy that DigiLink/Avid HD interface hardware is so special needs to go away.

[danuk]

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

A DigiLink system is any system that wait for it... uses DigiLink cables to connect to the interfaces. DigilLink are those cables going from the Thunderbolt HD native Box to your Omni. The Omni is a DigiLink interface, it's the only way it connects to anything as an interface..

It does not matter what you feel or think about this. DigilLink systems require a Avid Ultimate license to work. It's all spelt out in the systems requirements. And this has *always* been the case, with Pro Tools HD before Pro Tools Ultimate you should have been aware of this when you purchased the hardware.

The economic stupidity of this is why I pointed out it often makes more sense to get off DigiLink onto good quality USB or Thunderbolt interfaces.

You can try an Ultimate subscription for a month, and see if you can update the firmware, but maybe the unit is bricked, who knows. Do you have somebody with a system you can test the HDN box on? Again I'm just not sure why any of this is worth it, I'd sell that hardware (untested if need be) and go buy a nice USB or Thunderbolt interface... more compact, likely more features, quieter (no fans), possibly lower latency, better/current vendor support, etc. An Omni is nice as a control room box if you have a rack of DigiLink interfaces to add it to, but in this situation, it's likely just not got much going for it. The fallacy that DigiLink/Avid HD interface hardware is so special needs to go away.

Thanks for the explanation! Apologies for the noobie question. It's been a while since I've had to call upon this library of vocab.

The issue I have is that, although it may be the case that its only compatibility is PTUltimate presently, when purchased (£4k) I had it working no problems with my PT10 non-HD version. So it's a bit of a kick that now a high tier cost is in the way of usage.

Thanks so much for the explanation and advice! - I probably should call Avid to figure something out

[danuk]

Thanks for the explanation! - Apologies for the noobie questions. It's been a while since I've had to call upon this vocabulary.

SOLVED:
I purchased Ultimate for a month and update the firmware - confirming it now does show up and inputs are signaling in Logic.

Thanks

[Darryl Ramm]

Great!!

[danuk]

An update on this topic.

I went into mac studio recovery mode to go back to full security due to my mac studio constantly crashing. The HD native unit stopped being seen by Audio midi setup when in full security.

I upgraded Ventura from 13.3 to 13.4.1. I think this may have been a mistake.
Now when uninstalling and reinstalling the avid HD driver (through the Avid guide method and lower security policy) - I still can't see the HD native unit showing up in Audio Midi setup.

So frustrating.

Showing up in System information - Yes
DigiTest - Yes
Audio midi setup - No

Any reason you might think?

I'm trying to find a roll back to Ventura 13.3 as that's the only variable I can think of.

[dalonso66]

Originally Posted by danuk

Now when uninstalling and reinstalling the avid HD driver (through the Avid guide method and lower security policy) - I still can't see the HD native unit showing up in Audio Midi setup..

I'm wondering if this is a case of needing to use the Avid HD Driver Loader utility. If you haven't tried it. It can be found here: https://avid.secure.force.com/pkb/ar...roubleshooting