Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-29-2021, 07:42 PM
finalmixaudio finalmixaudio is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 18
Default LFE - Theatrical Release

Hello all!

I recently finished mixing a feature film in 5.1 for broadcast/streaming, but client also asked for a theatrical version, so I delivered a theatrical "level" mix since there was no budget to take it to a proper dubbing stage. Yesterday we went to see the film in a private screening at a large theater and it general sounded great, but it was definitely missing the sub frequencies, it felt like the sub wasn't there. When I mix 5.1 I send to the LFE just what I want to enhance with more low end, rumble etc, not everything of course...

So my question to you guys is... in a theatrical release mix do you have to send more to the LFE channel?? doesn't the bass management of the theater or any surround system already take care of that?

I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing anything here, since I was very surprised with the missing sub frequencies.

Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-29-2021, 09:08 PM
JCBigler's Avatar
JCBigler JCBigler is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 2,966
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

I'm not a film and TV mixing guy, but I've mixed several thousand live performances in a variety of rooms and systems.

My first question would be what the systems look like that you are working on? What's your mixing studio speaker set up and how big is the room? And how big is the theatre room and sound system that you listened on?

The size of the room and the particular system will greatly affect the final mix. Maybe the theatre that you listened on had a slightly undersized sub for the room compared to what you were mixing on in your studio?
__________________
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Lenovo P50: quad-core i7-6820hq, 64GB, 2TB SSD, Win 10 Pro / Protools vanilla 2021.7
2018 MacBook Pro: six-core i9, 32GB, 1TB, Catalina / HD|Native-TB / Protools Ultimate 2021.7, DAPS, L-ISA Studio

Home/mobile: Focusrite Red 8Pre / Clarett 4Pre / DVS
Road/hotel: Roland OctaCaputre / Apogee One
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-29-2021, 09:58 PM
dr sound's Avatar
dr sound dr sound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,175
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

Quote:
Originally Posted by finalmixaudio View Post
Hello all!

So my question to you guys is... in a theatrical release mix do you have to send more to the LFE channel?? doesn't the bass management of the theater or any surround system already take care of that?

I'm just trying to make sure I'm not missing anything here, since I was very surprised with the missing sub frequencies.

Thanks in advance
There is no bass management in a 5.1 Theatrical Film.
If it isn't sent to the LFE you won't hear anything out of the LFE.
__________________
Marti D. Humphrey CAS
aka dr.sound
www.thedubstage.com
IMDB http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0401937/
Like everything in life, there are no guarantees just opportunities.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-29-2021, 10:16 PM
finalmixaudio finalmixaudio is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 18
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
I'm not a film and TV mixing guy, but I've mixed several thousand live performances in a variety of rooms and systems.

My first question would be what the systems look like that you are working on? What's your mixing studio speaker set up and how big is the room? And how big is the theatre room and sound system that you listened on?

The size of the room and the particular system will greatly affect the final mix. Maybe the theatre that you listened on had a slightly undersized sub for the room compared to what you were mixing on in your studio?


Thanks for the reply, but I think Marty got it down below.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-29-2021, 10:20 PM
finalmixaudio finalmixaudio is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 18
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr sound View Post
There is no bass management in a 5.1 Theatrical Film.
If it isn't sent to the LFE you won't hear anything out of the LFE.


I had the misconception that theatrical used bass management. Thanks a lot for that!
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-29-2021, 10:30 PM
dr sound's Avatar
dr sound dr sound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,175
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

Bass management is used for Immersive Mixes ( Atmos / DTSX).
It is used for the surrounds only not the mains.
Bass Management is used for IMAX . There is no dedicated LFE in a IMAX Mix.
Everything below 72 HZ is bass managed to the subs.

FYI LOTS of Theaters have very poor subs in them. They get stolen since they are down on the floor and used for guys Cars
__________________
Marti D. Humphrey CAS
aka dr.sound
www.thedubstage.com
IMDB http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0401937/
Like everything in life, there are no guarantees just opportunities.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-29-2021, 11:23 PM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 695
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr sound View Post
Bass management is used for Immersive Mixes ( Atmos / DTSX).
It is used for the surrounds only not the mains.
Bass Management is used for IMAX . There is no dedicated LFE in a IMAX Mix.
Everything below 72 HZ is bass managed to the subs.

FYI LOTS of Theaters have very poor subs in them. They get stolen since they are down on the floor and used for guys Cars
. That’s funny! Those would be some seriously weighed down trunks.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-30-2021, 03:42 AM
garret garret is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 592
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

A lot of times the subs in cinemas are deliberately set low to not disturb the adajacent screen. It's a bit of a crapshoot. Best to only use it for additional flavour and make sure the mix works without it.
The other thing to note is if you mixed in a smaller room and not a large dub stage then most likely you thought the lfe channel was loud enough but due to the bass build up that happens in smaller rooms it doesn't equate to what you will hear in a large room.
__________________
IMDB
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-30-2021, 06:38 AM
dr sound's Avatar
dr sound dr sound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Burbank, CA
Posts: 2,175
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

Quote:
Originally Posted by garret View Post
a lot of times the subs in cinemas are deliberately set low to not disturb the adajacent screen. It's a bit of a crapshoot. Best to only use it for additional flavour and make sure the mix works without it.
The other thing to note is if you mixed in a smaller room and not a large dub stage then most likely you thought the lfe channel was loud enough but due to the bass build up that happens in smaller rooms it doesn't equate to what you will hear in a large room.
Exactly!
__________________
Marti D. Humphrey CAS
aka dr.sound
www.thedubstage.com
IMDB http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0401937/
Like everything in life, there are no guarantees just opportunities.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-01-2021, 11:02 AM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: London
Posts: 831
Default Re: LFE - Theatrical Release

Just a thought, are you using any low frequency enhancement in your mixes?
It's not enough most times to just send some tracks to the sub, you need to be using plugins like Lowender, Waves Lo Air, Avid Pro Subharmonic or even an old DBX 120 box on the LFE channel or even across the LCR in some situations to get your low end to sound cinematic.
Be careful with it though, like all good things it's easily overdone.



Sorry if I'm telling you how to suck eggs.
__________________
Mac Pro 7,1 16 core, OSX 10.15.6, HD-Native TB, Trinnov MC, MTRX Studio, 2xRME ADA-4, Sync HD, AJA IO XT, PT Dock, PT Control, Soundflow, PT 2021.6
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Mixing a Theatrical Trailer TimNielsen Post - Surround - Video 5 12-10-2018 05:32 PM
Need 5.1 room for theatrical mix NYC ec123 Post - Surround - Video 3 12-01-2012 04:21 PM
Theatrical mix on Blu Ray v.s. DMU subwoof Post - Surround - Video 22 01-08-2012 08:24 PM
DVD vs Theatrical Levels StavrosSound Post - Surround - Video 19 12-18-2007 01:05 PM
Mix Distance for Theatrical Release? spigots Post - Surround - Video 4 09-25-2004 11:15 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:25 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com