Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Other Products > MIDI

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-01-2009, 12:46 PM
sonofanders sonofanders is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Default Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same time

Hi,

I'm a relatively new Pro Tools user, so please forgive my ignorance when presenting this dilemma:

I am using a Nord Electro 2 as my MIDI controller AND as a general audio instrument for piano, organ, etc. This is a typical scenario of what happens when I try to use it for both purposes -

1. I create an mono instrument track (let's say the instrument is Boom)
2. I record a simple drum beat
3. Next, I create a mono audio track (piano sound coming from the Nord) with the intention of recording over the drum beat
4. When I activate the mono audio track, not only do I hear the piano coming from the monitors, but also the MIDI instrument sounds (in this case, drum beats) that is still coming the instrument track I had created a few seconds earlier.

How do I set it up so that I can use the Nord for MIDI OR as an audio instrument whenever I want to toggle between the two and don't have to listen to drum beats every time I play the piano.

Thanks. Be gentle.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-01-2009, 02:20 PM
DigiTechSupt's Avatar
DigiTechSupt DigiTechSupt is offline
Avid
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 33,877
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

A couple different ways:

1. Change the input on the Instrument/MIDI track to 'None' unless you're recording to that track.
2. In Preferences>MIDI set the default thru instrument to the MIDI interface port and channel that the Nord is connected to.

A combination of one or both of those should solve your problem.
__________________
Avid Audio Tech Support
Help us help you - read this before posting
Support FAQ
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-01-2009, 02:31 PM
flommer flommer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 4,118
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

One way you could do this:

You need MIDI cables going both directions between Pt and the Nord (if USB you are good to go)

On the Nord - Local control Off

In ProTools - MIDI Thru On (checked)

What this does is separate the actual keys from the Nord's synth.

The Nord will now only play if you have a MIDI track with the Nord as the destination/output.

Typically, Protools will only pass a controller's output to a single instrument (weather it is a real synth or a VI) and this will be which ever MIDI track is selected or record enabled.

Another advantage here is that you can record the MIDI of the Piano track and the Audio at the same time. Only a single MIDI instrument will respond to controller messages at a time (unless you specifically record enable more than one MIDI/Inst track)

Make sense?
__________________
MacPro3ghz, 6GB, 10.7.5, PT10.3.2, Digi002 factory/toolkit2/PTIEP, 11R
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-01-2009, 03:05 PM
sonofanders sonofanders is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

Thanks for the reply, Flommer. I did what you recommended, and it worked just fine (before I was just turning down the volume on the Piano to not hear the keys while using it as a MIDI controller, but of course your way is better)

The only thing is that when I record a drum loop through MIDI, immediately thereafter I want to record piano from the Nord (so I would then turn local control back on), but the MIDI notes still come through when I'm trying to play the keys.

So I guess my issue is not so much that the piano plays when I'm trying to record a MIDI instrument, it's that the MIDI instrument keeps playing when I'm trying to play the piano.

I tried to follow the Digidesign Tech guy's advice, but the input on the instrument track is listed as "no input" already.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-01-2009, 04:57 PM
flommer flommer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 4,118
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

You shouldn't have to turn local control back on. Protools should be taking the MIDI output from the keys, recording it, and passing it back to the Nord to create the sounds..

Do you have a MIDI track for the Nord set up?
__________________
MacPro3ghz, 6GB, 10.7.5, PT10.3.2, Digi002 factory/toolkit2/PTIEP, 11R
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-01-2009, 06:00 PM
sonofanders sonofanders is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

No, actually I don't have a MIDI track set up to route the Nord's sound directly through MIDI, but that was my eventual goal (i.e. to be able to play a Nord organ, then go back and quantize it or what have you)

I don't have any idea how to make my Nord's sounds come through MIDI even though I have read the manual four or five times. Help?

(I was going to deal with this problem first, then deal with getting Nord's sounds to come through, but I guess the problems are related)
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-01-2009, 09:37 PM
sonofanders sonofanders is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

OK, so I figured out how to get either a MIDI or Instrument track to receive signals from my controller (the Nord) through the MIDI channels, so the whole "drums and piano playing at the same time" problem is fixed...

BUT

How am I able to have two or three MIDI or Instrument tracks receiving different instrument sounds from the Nord at the same time? For example:

If I tell the Nord to send a Piano sound on MIDI channel 1, and record a piano track, but then tell the Nord to send an Organ sound on MIDI channel 2 to try to do the same thing, Pro Tools stops recognizing the piano sounds from channel 1, almost like I can only have one MIDI channel coming through at a time from the Nord. Is this true? If so, what's the point of the Nord or any other synth having 16 MIDI channels if only one works at a time?

I would ideally want to record a Piano track over the top of an Organ track over the top of Clavinova track (well, not really Clavinova, but for hypothetical purposes)
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-02-2009, 12:19 AM
flommer flommer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 4,118
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

Quote:
How am I able to have two or three MIDI or Instrument tracks receiving different instrument sounds from the Nord at the same time?
Does the Nord have multiple outputs? If not, then you need to record the audio 1 track at a time.

Or you can allow 3 MIDI tracks to trigger the Nord at the same time, and you would just monitor the mix coming out of the Nord

Remember that MIDI tracks do not receive audio.. They only receive/transmit MIDI data.

Inst tracks receive MIDI and audio, but they only record MIDI
__________________
MacPro3ghz, 6GB, 10.7.5, PT10.3.2, Digi002 factory/toolkit2/PTIEP, 11R
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-02-2009, 10:37 AM
sonofanders sonofanders is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 14
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

The Nord has one MIDI input and one MIDI output but 16 MIDI channels.

I understand that I can only record one audio track at a time, but if I record a MIDI track coming from the Nord on MIDI channel 1, can I not then create and record another MIDI track coming from MIDI channel 2 while simultaneously monitoring the first track from channel 1?

I guess my confusion comes from the fact that if I create two instrument tracks (lets says drums and synth pad), I can record the drums, then go and record the synth pad while at the same time hearing the drums that I had just previously created.

Would the solution be: creating a MIDI track, recording piano from the Nord, converting that to an audio track, and then moving on to a different MIDI track? If so, how would one "convert" a MIDI/Instrument track to audio?

Sorry about all the questions; I'm just a financial consultant. If you need help with your 401(k) plan, just ask!
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-02-2009, 12:23 PM
flommer flommer is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Boise, ID
Posts: 4,118
Default Re: Seperating audio and MIDI instrument tracks so they don't activate at the same ti

It really does get a bit confusing!

I think maybe you are changing midi channels unnecessarily, but that is based on assumptions while not really knowing how the Nord works, but bear with me...

The Nord, with local control off, is the same as having 2 different devices entirely.. The "controller" part (the keys) does not need to change channels while transmitting MIDI to ProTools for recording. Protools will route that MIDI based on what MIDI track you have selected or record enabled. If you create a new MIDI track, for example, it's MIDI input will default to "all", meaning it will accept MIDI from any controller that is connected. Since you are only one person playing a single instrument at a time (for argument's sake), only 1 channel of MIDI will be coming into protools at a time. You choose which track will "monitor" the incoming MIDI by record enabling it.

On the "synth" side of the Nord, you will need to enable it to be a Multi-timbral playback setup, however that might be described.. The only hardware synth I have is an Alesis QSR, so that's where my assumptions come in.. I have to set the QSR so that it monitors 16 ch of MIDI, and I have to assign a different patch to each channel. That way, if Protools is sending out say 5 different channels of MIDI to the QSR at the same time, the QSR runs each channel through a different patch, mixes the results to L/R stereo and sends that to the audio outputs..

I have a feeling this could be just making things more complicated so try this non-multitimbral version:

New session, MIDI thru selected, make these tracks-

4 MIDI tracks - inputs set at "all"
4 Audio tracks (stereo if that's how you are recording your sounds)
2 Aux inputs (stereo also)

name the MIDI tracks - drums, piano, organ, clav
name the Audio tracks the same way
name the auxes - boom and Nord

Insert Boom on the correct aux track
Plug the Nord into a couple inputs and assign that Nord aux's input to that stereo pair

Nord set to "Local control off"

Drum MIDI track output set to Boom
Boom aux output set to Bus 1-2
Drum Audio track input set to Bus 1-2

Nord aux output set to Bus 3-4

Piano MIDI track output set to Nord CH 1
Piano audio track input set to Bus 3-4

Organ MIDI track output set to Nord CH 1
Organ audio track input set to Bus 3-4

Clav MIDI track output set to Nord CH 1
Clav audio track input set to Bus 3-4

Record enable the Boom MIDI track and the Boom audio track
You should be able to record your MIDI drum track and the audio drum track at the same time. When done, mute the drum midi track and disable record on the drum audio track.

Next, select a piano patch on the Nord (either right on the device or in the MIDI preset selector in ProTools)
Record enable the piano MIDI track and the Piano Audio track.. If your settings are correct, you will be able to record the piano MIDI and audio tracks, and hear the drum audio track. When done, mute the piano MIDI track and disable record on the piano audio track.

Next, select an organ patch on the Nord.
Record enable the organ MIDI track and the organ Audio track.. You should now be able to record the organ MIDI and audio tracks, and hear the drum and piano audio tracks. When done, mute the organ MIDI track and disable record on the organ audio track.

Finally, select a clav patch on the Nord.
Record enable the clav MIDI track and the clav Audio track.. You should now be able to record the clav MIDI and audio tracks, and hear the drum, piano, and organ audio tracks. When done, mute the clav MIDI track and disable record on the clav audio track.

This leaves you with audio and MIDI recordings of each instrument, but the MIDI tracks are inactive (just there in case you want to fix something and re-record the audio track)

For a multi-timbral type of recording, here are the differences:

Forget the audio tracks

The Nord needs to be set up to playback multiple patches at the same time, 1 per channel. Ch 1 = a piano patch, Ch 2 = an organ patch, Ch 3 = a clav patch.

The nord aux's output should be set to analog1-2(Main stereo outputs)

The Drum MIDI track is fine as is. The boom aux's output should be set to analog1-2 (Main stereo outputs)

The piano MIDI track output needs to be set to NORD ch 1

The organ MIDI track output needs to be set to NORD ch 2

The clav MIDI track output needs to be set to NORD ch 3

As before, only the MIDI track that is record enabled will receive data from the controller.

Record 1 track at a time. Do not mute the MIDI tracks after you are done recording them.

Now, upon playback, the boom midi track will trigger the boom plugin on the aux. The other 3 midi tracks will trigger the 3 different channels on the nord, and it will pass that audio, mixed down to stereo, back through the aux..

Note also that boom could have been on an Inst track. An inst track is only a MIDI track combined with an Aux track.

Damn... I hope that can clear up what's going on for you.. I don't think I could put much more detail into it...
__________________
MacPro3ghz, 6GB, 10.7.5, PT10.3.2, Digi002 factory/toolkit2/PTIEP, 11R
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Activate the resonance frequency mods on the instrument tracks ernstbuckingham Virtual Instruments 0 10-12-2010 11:59 AM
seperating midi notes on different tracks? brokemusician3 Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 05-08-2008 12:00 PM
seperating midi notes into individual tracks. tempest1226 MIDI 6 01-27-2008 07:58 AM
Instrument Tracks fail to re-activate Buff 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 0 07-23-2007 08:46 AM
Seperating midi drums [notes] to seperate tracks? gollywillickers 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 3 02-21-2006 07:20 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:32 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com