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  #1  
Old 07-02-2003, 08:56 PM
skyking skyking is offline
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Default What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

anybody got any input on vdrums far as how they record and what styles they are good for and maybe not good for?? thanks
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  #2  
Old 07-02-2003, 09:34 PM
David001 David001 is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units? *DELETED*

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  #3  
Old 07-02-2003, 10:07 PM
Aussie169 Aussie169 is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

David,
Why were you recording audio? The beauty of these things is that you can record the midi data. Then it is TOTALLY editible. Groove, quantize, nudge, change sounds, etc, etc.
Midi loops with an instant human feel.
I have access to one and use it regularly.
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  #4  
Old 07-02-2003, 10:16 PM
Steve Moore Steve Moore is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

I have to agree with aussie...

The beauty of MIDI drums is that they are completely editable. What's more, you can record the tracks and THEN decide what sounds you want. There are a million good drum samples out there.

Drums sampled in a good studio with good mics can give you great sounds with little or no extra processing required. This frees up resources.

You can even record multiple drummers and mix and match the sessions down to the quarter measure. Because the final drum sounds are triggered later this works.

For a good vdrum kit to work though YOU NEED SUFFICIENT AUDIO OUTPUTS.

A good vdrum setup has at least 10-12 audio outs so it IS as good as mic placement, maybe better, especially if you can't afford a drum room and a truckload of good mics.

I assign the isolated outs to my digital board and generate the sounds (first generation) at mixdown. This frees up a dozen Pro Tools tracks.

It takes a little tweaking at first to get the drum modules setup for isolated outputs, but then there is a big payoff. You have complete control at mixdown just as though you had mic'd an acoustic kit, but with ZERO bleed. And volume is never an issue since the recording can be done under phones or at low levels if needed.

And correcting mistakes is a breeze with MIDI and a pain the you know what with audio.

Of course there are a few things a drummer can't quite do on vdrums but they are IMO not noticeable in the final mix of most projects.

One final word, get vdrums with mesh heads that play like real drums. Then put them through one or more drum modules. I use an Alesis Sr16, D4, DmPro and Kurzweil K2000.

BTW, alot of drummers will snarl at the idea of playing an electronic kit (understandable), however, in my experience I have yet to find someone who can tell the difference in the final mix... that is to say that someone (average listener) can tell the difference between a drummer playing am acoustic kit vs a vdrum kit... if the engineer does his job right and there are good sample on isolated outputs.
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  #5  
Old 07-02-2003, 10:22 PM
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Shan Shan is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

I have a set in my studio and they sit there collecting dust. They never get used. They real drums always get tracked. Oh well.

Shan
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Old 07-02-2003, 10:31 PM
8mmOverdose 8mmOverdose is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

the trick with v-type drums is to record the midi drum notes, don't just use the stereo audio outputs. once you have the midi notes recorded, the editing is very flexible from there. i really like that you can move midi notes around, cut and paste the fills, etc. its very easy, but not so easy with a "real" kit.

the other trick is to use a good sound module. the roland modules are ok, but they are modeled sounds, not "real" samples. there are also about 16 million different adjustments you can make for each drum sound, and most of those adjusments wont sound good!

i have gotten ok sounds from the roland td-8 module, but just ok. i still dont like the cymbals and havent really found a snare that i "love". i am happy with the toms and kicks i have dialed up, but it took some time to get the sounds i liked, and i still may make changes.

i am looking into ddrum. i understand that the ddrum modules use real drum samples, sound fantastic and are real easy to use. the downside is they are all single zone. IOW, you can't choke the cymabls like with the roland modules. but that really doesnt matter for recording because you can move around the midi notes and pull up a cymbal choke easily.

ddrum kits are pricey. there is a company called Pintech - http://edrums.com - they make electronic kits that are real good and very reasonable. thats what i use (and like), but there are a lot of other companies out there.

you can pair a good pintech kit with a ddrum module for probably under $2 grand. however, if you get a cheapo kit and cheapo module - well. . . it 'aint gonna sound good!

currently i use a roland td8 module, but i am trying out some soft samplers to trigger my recorded midi drum notes, as well as looking into the ddrum module. i may use a combination of these before i am done.

you also can use a drum machine to program your tracks, record the midi, then trigger a ddrum (or the like) module.

here are two examples. one metal, one acoustic. the drums sounds are from a roland td8. this is not my final product, and i am not nearly finished with the drums. but i am happy with what i have so far. decide for yourself.

http://basstardz.dhs.org/DUC/DUC_MUS...mortem_cut.mp3

http://basstardz.dhs.org/DUC/DUC_MUS...that_spoon.m3u

i like using midi drums. i may never record a real kit again.
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  #7  
Old 07-02-2003, 10:39 PM
Steve Moore Steve Moore is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

8mm... you're right there... good modules, isolated outouts, record the MIDI data first, then edit to your hearts content, select/try different kits/sounds... then print it.

Beats the hell out of dealing with an acoustic kit IMO.

Not to mention that I can't play an acoustic kit worth a darn but I can program an electronic one when there's no drummer around.

BTW, I don't like the roland sounds much either. There's alot of controllable parameters but they come at the expense of good sounds. Like the man said, there's a million ways to dial in BAD sounds.

Interestingly enough, of all the Alesis units I think the two older units have the best sounds. I still like the d4 over the dmpro and the SR16 has some suprisingly good sounds as well.
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  #8  
Old 07-03-2003, 03:45 AM
odysseys odysseys is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

Quote:
Originally posted by skyking:
anybody got any input on vdrums far as how they record and what styles they are good for and maybe not good for?? thanks
<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The roland v-drums have great feel in playing but it's good only for that(triggering).For sound you must engage a sampler.
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  #9  
Old 07-03-2003, 04:07 AM
funkyd funkyd is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units?

I have a friend in NYC who literally has a "studio" apartment where, thanks to V-drums, he can rehearse and/or record a 4 pc. band in his studio apartment(and has/does). All with separate headphone mixes. Compared to the price of renting a rehearsal studio in Manhattan, this is a cool setup.

As far as recording, he records the V-drums using separate outputs(Ditto what Steve said about this and the added flexibility), and records the samples dry, adding effects and EQ later. He's recorded some amazing sounding stuff, in Rock, Blues, Fusion, etc. I think the samples sound great and BLEND/MIX in well with the other instruments. I think they sound great for the types of music that sounds great with acoustic drums. Heck, you can even hear drums bleeding into cymbal mics and other drums- that's how realistic they sound. They thought of everything.

I recommend getting to know the sound module inside and out to get one's money's worth- there are infinite ways to alter the sounds of the sample(shell, head, pitch, effects, etc.),as you well know.

As a drummer, I'd rather play acoustic, but after you wail for about 10-15 minutes on the V-drums, you start to get the feel for the instrument.

That's my opinion... based on my actual experience playing and recording with them...

Cheers [img]images/icons/cool.gif[/img]

BTW- Anyone want to buy a used Yamaha DTExpress electronic kit? [img]images/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]images/icons/grin.gif[/img]
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  #10  
Old 07-03-2003, 11:58 PM
David001 David001 is offline
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Default Re: What are your thoughts and experiences with Vdrums or similar units? *DELETED*

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