Using Logic as a VI slave - custom built environments

[suicune]

Since I've now received a number of personal requests for environment building I thought it was about time I posted a follow up to this.

Firstly given the high level of interest in operating in this way I think it's probably worth explaining why logic does not normally allow this, and why it makes creating environments for other people less than straightforward. Logic's environment is very dumb where MIDI inputs are concerned. It simply puts them in a list in alphabetical order, takes the sum of them all and routes that sum to the sequencer input. A track in record will receive MIDI from any channel on any port. If you simply set up an IAC bus and feed it MIDI from Pro Tools you will only be able to play one instrument at a time as many people have discovered for themselves.

With a little environment programming this can easily be changed. I build splitters by deleting the 'sum' cable, and routing the ports individually to separate software instrument objects.

The problem is that whilst these splitting environments work fine on my own machine, the may or may not work on somebody else's. It all depends on this list of input ports. If a port is labeled the same, and appears in the same place in this list, the splitter will work on someone else's setup. But the presence of differently labeled ports (eg from a 3rd party MIDI interface) can cause it to automatically change the virtual cables and stop working.

Because of this for some people my environments are working straight away, whilst for others I am having to build custom environments to match the port listings on a specific system. I am quite happy to continue doing so as it is not especially time consuming now that I have templates. So if anyone else wants a custom built logic environment by all means get in touch providing the following information:

1) A screenshot of your clicks & ports layer. Ensure all your MIDI interfaces are powered on before launching Logic. Launch Logic, and create a new empty project. Go to Window>Environment to open a new window. In the top left-hand corner where it says 'mixer' there is a pull-down menu. Open the menu and select the option 'clicks & ports'. You should be able to see a large light grey box labeled 'Physical Input' with all you MIDI ports listed in it. Take a screenshot of this.

2) A brief description of your intended MIDI setup - how many VI slave ports/channels do you want to use? Do you need to be able to continue recording MIDI into Logic in the normal way on another port? Do you use multi-timbral instruments and if so how many would you like creating? For example with a 2 port setup you could have 16 separate instruments on each channel on the 1st port and 1 16ch multi-timbral instrument on the second. See some of my examples below.

3) Your version of Logic. I can provide them in v5,7,8 & 9 formats.

I am also providing the following links for my default environments. Remember whether these will work for you or not depends entirely on your own MIDI setup, but please try them first before contacting me. All these are in Logic 8 format, which should be fully compatible with Logic 9 also.

Single port IAC router

http://download.madhat.co.uk/LogicIACSplit.zip

This is designed to work with just 1 IAC bus port, labeled 'Bus 1' (the default). It feeds 16 separate software instruments, one on each MIDI channel.

3 port discrete router

http://download.madhat.co.uk/Logic3portSplit.zip

This uses 3 ports labeled 'Port 1, Port 2, Port 3' as is the default labeling by ipmidi. It feeds 48 separate software instruments as labeled in the arrange window. It can be configured to work with 3 ports on the IAC bus also, but you will need to re-label the ports accordingly. Run the Audio MIDI Setup utility, double-click on the IAC driver, and in the ports tab double-click on the individual port names to change them.

3 port router with muti-timbral instruments

http://download.madhat.co.uk/Logic3portSplitMT.zip

This uses 3 ports labeled as above. The first 2 ports feed 32 discrete instruments as before, but port 3 feeds 2 multi-timbral instruments, one on channels 1-8 the other on channels 9-16.


Many thanks
Sheena Sear

[GS-DK]

Thanks again - I have already used your environment. It's working absolutely great - I like the on/off switch so you are able to avoid double triggering.

[crizdee]

Originally Posted by suicune

Since I've now received a number of personal requests for environment building I thought it was about time I posted a follow up to this.

Great Stuff!! Thanks again

Chris

[gsilbers]

you can also use plogue bidule. much easier to build custom templates and
works with windows too, AND also allows for vsts in mac.

if u can part ways with logics native synths that is.

and here is a video if a guy who loads a whole orchestra in bidule, on the same mac as his main DAW (DP but the theory still applies. ) great for those extra cores.

www.cinesamples.com/videos.

just an option, even though i love logic, as a slave its pita.

[dav19pt5]

suicune

thanks for making this available. i was able to get the MT version to work so thanks. quick question. on my macbook pro (2 cores) w 4gb ram i am noticing that using Logic as a VI slave that Logic only uses the one core. is this just the way it is with IAS driver?

Dave M

[suicune]

thanks for making this available. i was able to get the MT version to work so thanks. quick question. on my macbook pro (2 cores) w 4gb ram i am noticing that using Logic as a VI slave that Logic only uses the one core. is this just the way it is with IAS driver?

Dave M

No problem, actually it's not to do with the IAC driver per se, rather with how logic handles VI processor threading whilst working in realtime. The same thing would happen if you tried to record using multiple VIs simultaneously entirely inside logic. I was hoping maybe the threading enhancements in 9.1.3 would have addressed this but no such luck.

To be honest I built these environments a long time ago - if VI slaving is something you need to do regularly I would strongly recommend you invest in VEPro, it's a much better solution than the logic one will ever be. It has 64-bit support, can save the setup when PT saves, can keep the setup active whilst switching sessions, has proper multi-processing support etc etc.

The only reason I would recommend using the IAC/Logic route these days is if you specifically wanted Logic's own VIs. Although sculpture is pretty great !

[dav19pt5]

thanks

looked into VEpro. so if pro tools is 32 bit but i run my VI's through VEpro then i can use things that are optimized for 64bit inside VEpro? this is great news. one thing though - since it sounds like you have this set up. don't you need a vienna key/dongle. i don't think i can rationalize the pro tools dongle and vienna in my macbook pro. any ideas on how to get around this or if you can take it out after you authorize?

thanks
DM

[suicune]

Yes you can run 64-bit compatible plugins inside the 64-bit server, and still get audio returns into 32-bit hosts. It's great.

It authorises via syncrosoft USB keys. Syncrosoft do offer a soft elicenser option so you can put the auth on your hard disk instead - but VSL imply on their website that this can't be used with their products, so I don't think this is an option, though you could try asking them. You certainly can't take the key out whilst VEPro is running, I did that once by accident and had PT crash, VE freeze and when I tried to force quit it I got a kernel panic! Definitely not recommended.

Surely a small footprint USB hub wouldn't be too much hassle though? Presumably you've already got an audio interface attached?

[dav19pt5]

thanks for the helpful info. i'll look more into it. i am thinking more a long the lines of using it on the move. no interface just core audio for editing and composing with VI's. so having the extra usb thingy may be difficult. i'll need to check to see if they work with usb hubs as well. sounds like i should email their customer support/sales. thanks again
DM