Advice needed on HD3 rig setup

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by audiogeekzine

My new job has me setting up an HD system for the new studio. I've got things working but I don't think I've got the most efficient/completely correct configuration. It was more complicated than I expected.

G5 (single core, might be swapped with another one)
1 PCI core card
1 PCI Process card
1 PCI Accel card
PT HD 7.3.1 (for now)

192 #1:
8 analog inputs and outputs
various digital inputs and outputs

192 #2:
8 analog inputs
16 analog outputs
various digital inputs and outputs

Preamps are
2x API 3124+ (4 channel each)
2 channels of TL Audio something old
more coming

24 channels of API summing (8200x2 + 8200A)
I have just 16 connected right now
I don't know if these even make sense to use.

Presonus Central station
Joe Meek compressor
Manley Massive Passive



Live room snake goes into the 10 preamps. Outs of the preamps go into the 192 analog input -4dB jacks.

Interface cable connections:
192#1, primary connection to Core card.
192#2, primary connection to accell card.

I have the effects rack to connect (Lexicon 480L and others) and I have to get the output of the summing mixers back into Pro Tools for mixdown. And headphone mixes.

Any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

Also, with the Voice assignment, DSP allocation business, what's the best way to go? I just don't understand the options at all. why would you want to reduce the # of voices. Why use more DSP for the same # of voices?

It really just depends on how you plan on using this system.

To sum it up, you have 16in/24out analog IO. You have 16 inputs to tie into it (10 mic lines, 2in from 480L, 2 for the manley and the meek, 2 in fromSumming mixer). For outputs you need 8~12: 2 for the central station, 2 for the 480L, 2 for the manley and the Meek plus at least a stereo output for headphones, if not 2 or three. The rest can go to the summing mixer.

The easiest way to visualize this is to write it out.

Inputs:
1-mic1 (API#1)
2-mic2 (API#1)
3-mic3 (API#1)
4-mic4 (API#1)
5-mic5 (API#2)
6-mic6 (API#2)
7-mic7 (API#2)
8-mic8 (API#2)
9-mic9 (TLAudio1)
10-mic10 (TL Audio2)
11-480L In LEFT
12-480L In RIGHT
13-Massive Passive/Meek Chain In LEFT
14-Massive Passive/Meek Chain In RIGHT
15-Summing in LEFT
16-Summing In RIGHT

Outputs
1-Central Station LEFT
2-Central Station RIGHT
3-480L Send LEFT
4-480L Send RIGHT
5-Manley/Meek Send LEFT
6-Manley/Meek Send RIGHT
7-Headphone Cue#1 LEFT
8-Headphone Cue#1 RIGHT
9-Summing mixer 1
10-Summing mixer 2
11-Summing mixer 3
12-Summing mixer 4
13-Summing mixer 5
14-Summing mixer 6
15-Summing mixer 7
16-Summing mixer 8
17-Summing mixer 9
18-Summing mixer 10
19-Summing mixer 11
20-Summing mixer 12
21-Summing mixer 13
22-Summing mixer 14
23-Summing mixer 15
24-Summing mixer 16

If you want more than one cue mix for headphones, then you have to have pairs of outputs serving dual purposes. Maybe 4 of the summing outs can also be patched into headphone amps for additional headphone cues, etc...

But... judging by the fact that you only have 10 mic tie lines, I can't imagine you'll need more than one headphone cue for 99% of the sessions you do.

The order in which you plug the stuff in is up to you, you can have the summing mixer be the first 16 outs instead of starting with the presonus or whatever... but regardless of which IO you hookup to what, laying it out like this helps you visualize exactly what you'll need.

For example, when laying it out like this it becomes very obvious that the manley and meek will have to be chained together and used on the same IO. and so on...

As for the best way to lay it out across your 192s... try to keep IO pairs together so you can use them as hardware inserts. So for example...

192#1:
In/Out pairs:
1-480L L In/Out
2-480L R In/Out
3-Manley/Meek L In/Out
4-Manley/Meek R In/Out
5-Summing In/CentralStation Out L
6-Summing In/CentralStation Out R
7-MicLine9 in/HP Cue Out L
8-MicLine10 in/HP Cue Out R

192#2:
1-MicLine In1/Summing Out1
2-MicLine In2/Summing Out2
3-MicLine In3/Summing Out3
4-MicLine In4/Summing Out4
5-MicLine In5/Summing Out5
6-MicLine In6/Summing Out6
7-MicLine In7/Summing Out7
8-MicLine In8/Summing Out8
9-Summing Out9
10-Summing Out10
11-Summing Out11
12-Summing Out12
13-Summing Out13
14-Summing Out14
15-Summing Out15
16-Summing Out16

But again, you can connect and configure it however you want. These are just suggestions off the top of my head.

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by O.G. Killa

As for the best way to lay it out across your 192s... try to keep IO pairs together so you can use them as hardware inserts. So for example...

192#1:
In/Out pairs:
1-480L L In/Out
2-480L R In/Out
3-Manley/Meek L In/Out
4-Manley/Meek R In/Out
5-Summing In/CentralStation Out L
6-Summing In/CentralStation Out R
7-MicLine9 in/HP Cue Out L
8-MicLine10 in/HP Cue Out R

Actually, looking at this again, I would probably change the order since Protools uses In and Out 1&2 as it's defaults, I would do this...

1-Summing In/CentralStation Out L
2-Summing In/CentralStation Out R
3-MicLine9 in/HP Cue Out L
4-MicLine10 in/HP Cue Out R
5-480L L In/Out
6-480L R In/Out
7-Manley/Meek L In/Out
8-Manley/Meek R In/Out

That way output 1&2 go to your monitoring. Output 3&4 is your HP cue. In 1&2 is the mixdown from the summing mixer. The odd man out input 3&4, but you can reorder that in the IO setup so it shows up in the list AFTER Micline1-8.

[Tweakhead]

Originally Posted by formfunction

but the 8 digital ins limits you to 48khz. (ADAT) ff

Not if you check the Sample Rate Conversion boxes under the Hardware Setup/Digital tab. You can have a 96k session while addressing 44.1k or 48k digital hardware.

Then he could run any external reverbs that have digital IO without eating up his analog IO.

[audiogeekzine]

today I sat down and figured out a better way (compared to before)

We're going to have 16 preamps, we have 10 installed right now.
16 preamps going direct into both 192 analog inputs.
192 #1 analog outputs 1-2 go to central station TRS 1 (main mix)
192 #1 analog outputs 3-8 go to headphone amps
192 #2 16 analog outputs to API summing 1-16
API XLR line out to Joe Meek compressor (not yet)
Joe Meek Output goes to Manley Massive Passive EQ. (not yet)
Massive passive goes to Central station TRS 2 (not yet, the API outs are going to the central station)
Speaker A output to Genelecs

This is all working right now. I can A/B the PT output and API output on the central station.

I think there's more gear coming tomorrow
*cry*
FML, LMAO, etc.

[audiogeekzine]

can the standard digital connection card be replaced with an Analog input card?

16 analog inputs and outputs would be WAY more useful. Rather than trying to work around the issue with other converters, or buying a third 192.

[Tweakhead]

Originally Posted by audiogeekzine

can the standard digital connection card be replaced with an Analog input card?

16 analog inputs and outputs would be WAY more useful. Rather than trying to work around the issue with other converters, or buying a third 192.

I agree with you. I would have LOVED this option. Unfortunately it does not work. The digital slot cannot utilize an analog card.

I hope Digi re-evaluate this when they design whatever replaces the 192 in the future.

[audiogeekzine]

right now I don't know what's the better option. (typing this out for my own benefit more than anything)

192#1 is stock
192#2 has Analog out expansion
must have 16 preamps

A)
Getting another analog input card for 192#2
192#1 does 16 preamps and 8 monitor outs (I really only need 2 different mixes though)
192#2 does 6 ch analog for FX rtn, 2 ch returning bus processing, 8 ch analog out to summing, 6 analog to FX (2 analog outputs unused)
or

B)
Use the lightpipe option (limited to 44.1 and 48K)
192#1 does 8 preamps, 8 analog out, 8 lightpipe in (FX rtn), 8 lightpipe out (FX snd)
192#2 does 8 preamps, 8 analog out to summing, 8 lightpipe in (FX rtn), 8 lightpipe out (FX snd)
requires additional A-D converter to return the signal from summing & bus processing back to PT via S/PDIF


for adat input and output I think a Profire 2626 or Firestudio in standalone mode would work, any others?

or

C)
Don't use the API summing and get another analog input card
192#1 does 16 preamps, 8 analog out
192#2 does 6 FX send and return, 2 ch return from bus processing, 8 analog out unused lightpipe input available for 192#2

D)
Use API Summing mixers for effects sends and returns. Not good for insert FX
192#1 does 8 preamps, 8 analog monitor outs (lightpipe available for expansion)
192#2 does 8 preamps, 8 stems to summing, 8 analog out to FX units
FX unit outs to summing
requires additional A-D converter to return the signal from summing & bus processing back to PT via S/PDIF

[audiogeekzine]

Thanks for the help OG and Tweak

[O.G. Killa]

you could get something like a Lynx Aurora. It interfaces with PTHD, shows up as a 192IO in protools, has the same latency as a 192 (so ADC still works) AND has 16 analog ins and outs... have you looked into one of those yet?

Honestly... and this is personal preference... I have found the summing mixers to be a waste of money. In the double blind tests I've done...between consoles, summing boxes like the dangerous 2 bus, and mixing in the box. People have 9 times out of 10 said that the PT ITB mix was the mix through the console and that it sounded best...

I've noticed one of the things some people don't like is the -2.5dB pan law that the PTHD stereo mixer uses. If you pull that out of the plugins folder and just leave the surround mixer in there by itself, the pan law will be -3dB instead of -2.5. You can still do stereo mixes, it's not like the surround mixer plugin will only let you do surround sessions. If you do that (I suggest using the surround DITHERED mixer), you might not notice that much of a difference between the summing mixer and an ITB mix...

[O.G. Killa]

Originally Posted by audiogeekzine

B)
Use the lightpipe option (limited to 44.1 and 48K)
192#1 does 8 preamps, 8 analog out, 8 lightpipe in (FX rtn), 8 lightpipe out (FX snd)
192#2 does 8 preamps, 8 analog out to summing, 8 lightpipe in (FX rtn), 8 lightpipe out (FX snd)
requires additional A-D converter to return the signal from summing & bus processing back to PT via S/PDIF


for adat input and output I think a Profire 2626 or Firestudio in standalone mode would work, any others?

Why bother with lightpipe and be stuck at 48KHz? You can use the 8 AES ins and outs on the 192 and not be limited by sampling rate. The AES ins have real time Sample rate conversion as well (someone else mentioned that) so you can hook your 480L up to the AES ins and it will upsample the 480L to 88.2 or 96KHz (or whatever your session is at) in realtime.

Plus AES can do much longer cable runs. I forget what the max distance is on lightpipe before you need a repeater or amplifier. I want to say it's something like 20ft or 25ft. AES cable can run for hundreds of feet without a problem. And you can make the AES cables yourself (saves money) since they are just XLR connects on a 110Ohm balanced cable.