Serato Pitch N time Pro alternative?

[TNM]

Originally Posted by Skytouch

Hi TNM, Like you, I have not heard PnT for a few years and will need to test for sound quality alongside current options; hopefully it's worth having back in the toolkit. Also, I haven't seen any references to a Logic LE version in this installation.

Fyi, here is a quick test using a simple drum loop.

Source: 4-bar drum loop at 120bpm
https://soundcloud.com/skytouch/sour...loop-at-120bpm

Target: 4-bar drum loop at 90bpm, using PnT 3.1 Harmonic Algorithm at 90bpm
https://soundcloud.com/skytouch/targ...rithm-at-90bpm

Target: 4-bar drum loop at 90bpm, using PnT 3.1 Transients Algorithm at 90bpm
https://soundcloud.com/skytouch/targ...rithm-at-90bpm

Sky

Sorry for the delay, I truly appreciate this and am listening now. I had a *very* unexpected bacterial infection that landed me in hospital with 109 fever. Just happy to be here right now

Thanks again.

[TNM]

Originally Posted by Skytouch

Hi TNM, Like you, I have not heard PnT for a few years and will need to test for sound quality alongside current options; hopefully it's worth having back in the toolkit. Also, I haven't seen any references to a Logic LE version in this installation.

Fyi, here is a quick test using a simple drum loop.

Source: 4-bar drum loop at 120bpm
https://soundcloud.com/skytouch/sour...loop-at-120bpm

Target: 4-bar drum loop at 90bpm, using PnT 3.1 Harmonic Algorithm at 90bpm
https://soundcloud.com/skytouch/targ...rithm-at-90bpm

Target: 4-bar drum loop at 90bpm, using PnT 3.1 Transients Algorithm at 90bpm
https://soundcloud.com/skytouch/targ...rithm-at-90bpm

Sky

Ok, have listened, this is precisely what I wanted to know, slow down with transients.

it's horrific, and Elastique Pro is noticeably superior.

After hearing this, I think there is something wrong with Serato for thinking this is worth 800 USD. I am going to say borderline nuts to be completely frank.

The main poly algorithm (what is in LE) is just awful and full of typical smearing and phasing.

The transient algorithm is better, but still has noticeable smearing.

Elastique Pro at a minimum can match it on drums, and the Avid Rhythmic beat slicer algo beats everything.

So that leaves vocals and poly synth sounds and the like. For that, X-Form is right up there so I don't see any point in PnT whatsoever. In fact, I've completely lost interest and you've saved me a bucket load of cash.

I owe you one!

PS soundcloud won't let me save the wav file. Any chance you can PM me the source 120 file so I can post some examples of all the alternatives we all get included with PT?

[Skytouch]

TNM, I'm glad these samples have helped your decision, and hope you're feeling better.

I fully agree that the PnT harmonic algorithm is unacceptable and the transient algorithm borderline at best. For drum timing I prefer either working with MIDI (e.g. Superior Drummer) or manually via Beat Detective. ElastiquePro with Elastic Audio has served pretty well for general use.

Sky

[TNM]

Originally Posted by Skytouch

TNM, I'm glad these samples have helped your decision, and hope you're feeling better.

I fully agree that the PnT harmonic algorithm is unacceptable and the transient algorithm borderline at best. For drum timing I prefer either working with MIDI (e.g. Superior Drummer) or manually via Beat Detective. ElastiquePro with Elastic Audio has served pretty well for general use.

Sky

Thanks for your kind wishes.

So yesterday after the comment, I used the Arturia Minufuse virtual loopback and recorded from SoundCloud directly into Wavelab so I could try it myself.

Yes, soundcloud as a source is not high quality, but I was able to find out what I wanted to know. i.e. compare it to the others.

1) Avid Rhythmic mode is not suited to slowing down this loop. Even at the shortest decay settings, there is a bit too much percussion info going on that the algorithm struggles to fill in the gaps with properly. For a minor slow down or any kind of speed up it's the one to choose though.

2) Elastique Pro - you can start hearing that you are stretching, but the destruction is quite a bit less than PnT Pro 3.

3) X Form with transients at 2. The best of the bunch by a landslide. You can barely tell that the loop at 90BPM has been stretched.

So there you go.

Very interesting, I do not understand what is going on in Serato's mind with this one. 20 years ago it would have been mind blowing. In 2024 it's just not.

To be honest, I was even able to get just "as good" results with Waves soundshifter.

My original idea for Pitch n Time, and because I thought for some reason it was going to be some revolutionary quality that was leaps and bounds above other stretch algos, was to use it as the destructive time resize tool algo in Pro Tools. But that has been assigned to X Form for good now. I know I can buy Elastique Pro and use it for that as well, i.e. not real time, but again X form was the best of the bunch.

The other one that comes to mind is Zynaptiq's algorithm in MOTU DP. The way it was raved about, and results on a transient bass line were so bad it was just adding that "whoomph" phasing type sound to every bass strike. It reminds me a lot of PnT tbh.

Cheers