Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Pro Tools HDX & HD Native Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-30-2023, 06:26 PM
anguswoodhead's Avatar
anguswoodhead anguswoodhead is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 142
Default Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

I'm on latest Ultimate, HDX card, M1 Mac Studio.

Firstly run in Hybrid mode - it's better than straight HDX - at least this system works better in hybrid mode.

On an audio track load up your most hungry Dly Comp plugins - so it's crazy high (see photo - track to the far right)
In my examples I've got it up to 50304 samples.

I run an analog 2 bus so that will never be correctly compensated but I don't find that an issue.

I can now run all the hungry plugins like Sonible and Sound Radix
Without having to "Freeze" the track.

Hope this helps someone.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Screenshot 2023-12-31 at 12.10.45 pm.jpg (96.4 KB, 0 views)
__________________
https://www.glasshousestudios.com.au

Mac Studio M1 Max
32 GB ram
macOS Ventura 13.1
24 core Metal 3 GPU
Avid MTRX Studio
Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.12
HDX card
AVID TB3 1 slot PCie Chassis
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-30-2023, 06:53 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,657
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

I am not following you. What specific delay compensation problem does this help avoid?

Ditto for having to freeze tracks, what delay comp problems does freezing a track help solve? (sure it can help refine DSP and CPU resources, but that is not not ally related to ADC problems)
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-30-2023, 06:58 PM
anguswoodhead's Avatar
anguswoodhead anguswoodhead is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 142
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

In sessions when using high latency plugins like Sound Radix Pi and the Sonible Ai plugins
It's quite common for your delay compensation on some tracks to be orange or red
Meaning they aren't being correctly compensated
Which equals the audio playing back out of time

Traditionally the work around is to freeze the track or plugins up to a slot of your choice
to bring them back into time
but then you can't edit the audio as it's 'frozen'

This techniques I've come up with resolves this problem.
Attached Images
File Type: png Screenshot 2023-12-31 at 12.49.32 pm.png (36.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: png Screenshot 2023-12-31 at 12.50.51 pm.png (36.9 KB, 0 views)
__________________
https://www.glasshousestudios.com.au

Mac Studio M1 Max
32 GB ram
macOS Ventura 13.1
24 core Metal 3 GPU
Avid MTRX Studio
Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.12
HDX card
AVID TB3 1 slot PCie Chassis
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-30-2023, 08:02 PM
BScout BScout is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 4,184
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

Orange means it is the max being compensated of all the tracks. It is still being compensated. Red means it’s exceeded the ability to be compensated.

Your solution doesn’t change what’s compensated or not. You’ve just made everything NOT compensated. Always.
Which is a way to work but not one I’d go with.
__________________
Pro Tools Ult 2024.3.1, HDX 2, MTRX/SPQ, RME BBF Pro + MADIface ProS1 x 2, Fire Max11 x 2, Dock, iPad Air5 Mac Mini 14,12, 12 core, macOS 13.6.6RAM 32GB, SSD 4TB, GPU 19 coreQNAP TVS-872XT 148TB TB3
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-30-2023, 08:08 PM
anguswoodhead's Avatar
anguswoodhead anguswoodhead is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 142
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

All my session audio and aux tracks are yellow / green
2 bus is red
Heavy comp track is red.
All audio plays back correctly
Means happy Angus. 😇
__________________
https://www.glasshousestudios.com.au

Mac Studio M1 Max
32 GB ram
macOS Ventura 13.1
24 core Metal 3 GPU
Avid MTRX Studio
Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.12
HDX card
AVID TB3 1 slot PCie Chassis
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-31-2023, 11:49 AM
LDS LDS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
All my session audio and aux tracks are yellow / green
2 bus is red
Heavy comp track is red.
All audio plays back correctly
Means happy Angus. 😇


Are you saying that your tracks aren’t green or orange if you remove all of the processing off your faux master bus? I would expect them to all be green/orange as they are lower than the maximum 16383 samples of ADC that Pro Tools has.
__________________
Pro Tools Ultimate 2024.3. OSX 13.6.5. Win 10. HD Native. Lynx AES16e. Lynx Aurora 16. i9-13900KF. ASRock Z690 Steel Legend. 64GB Ram. AMD Vega 64. BM Decklink. Dolby Atmos Renderer 5.2. Trinnov D-Mon. D-Command.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-02-2024, 12:36 AM
anguswoodhead's Avatar
anguswoodhead anguswoodhead is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 142
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

Ok. So you guys are correct. My loaded plug-in does not solve red delay compensation issues. Help please.

https://youtu.be/A4JGRcO1tto?si=hOkTpU37Z7pgtVfG
__________________
https://www.glasshousestudios.com.au

Mac Studio M1 Max
32 GB ram
macOS Ventura 13.1
24 core Metal 3 GPU
Avid MTRX Studio
Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.12
HDX card
AVID TB3 1 slot PCie Chassis
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-02-2024, 01:56 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: USA
Posts: 19,657
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

Help?

You put large latency plugins on the master fader and let them delay everything, but that does not count against the ADC limit (well except for the the broken behavior of master fader ADC actually counting to the limit) a few releases back.

You avoid using large latency plugins/plugin settings outside of the master fader.

You manually slide stuff around to solve latency problems.

No I am not defending the embarrassing low ADC limit of Pro Tools here. Avid has needed to improve this for ages, and get Pro Tools out of obstructing users workflows.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-02-2024, 02:12 AM
LDS LDS is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Sydney, Australia
Posts: 1,502
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

Quote:
Originally Posted by anguswoodhead View Post
Ok. So you guys are correct. My loaded plug-in does not solve red delay compensation issues. Help please.

https://youtu.be/A4JGRcO1tto?si=hOkTpU37Z7pgtVfG

I would try and rule out the presence of bugs first. The HDX Hybrid engine is riddled with delay compensation related issues. Perhaps try changing the session to a different playback engine, even if it is just your onboard computer sound card, and see if the delay issues vanish. There are plenty of threads about the problems and probably a decent number of know bugs listed in recent release notes.

If you can't narrow it down to something HDX/Hybrid Engine related, it probably boils down to plugin selection. Personally, I print all my auto-align as part of the edit/session prep process. Once the tracks are aligned, I have never found a need to tinker with them further to justify keeping auto align as a realtime process. There is a lovely serenity in committing to a sound.

Beyond that... it is probably too many "smart" and lookahead plugins. 16383 samples equals 350ms of delay. That is a lot. The best sounding 'smart' process I have ever heard in my studio is my Trinnov, and it does all its processing in just 24ms.

You have a great set of ears on you, Angus. If you dig into the problem and find it is the result of plugin selection, I highly recommend returning a bunch of the processing back to basics. For highly complex resonances, the smart stuff has a place. Beyond that, it seems to quickly become a crutch of laziness for many audio engineers rather than something the genuinely improves the final product.
__________________
Pro Tools Ultimate 2024.3. OSX 13.6.5. Win 10. HD Native. Lynx AES16e. Lynx Aurora 16. i9-13900KF. ASRock Z690 Steel Legend. 64GB Ram. AMD Vega 64. BM Decklink. Dolby Atmos Renderer 5.2. Trinnov D-Mon. D-Command.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-02-2024, 02:27 AM
anguswoodhead's Avatar
anguswoodhead anguswoodhead is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Queensland, Australia
Posts: 142
Default Re: Beating Pro Tools Delay Compensation tip...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Help?

You put large latency plugins on the master fader and let them delay everything, but that does not count against the ADC limit (well except for the the broken behavior of master fader ADC actually counting to the limit) a few releases back.

You avoid using large latency plugins/plugin settings outside of the master fader.

You manually slide stuff around to solve latency problems.

No I am not defending the embarrassing low ADC limit of Pro Tools here. Avid has needed to improve this for ages, and get Pro Tools out of obstructing users workflows.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LDS View Post
I would try and rule out the presence of bugs first. The HDX Hybrid engine is riddled with delay compensation related issues. Perhaps try changing the session to a different playback engine, even if it is just your onboard computer sound card, and see if the delay issues vanish. There are plenty of threads about the problems and probably a decent number of know bugs listed in recent release notes.

If you can't narrow it down to something HDX/Hybrid Engine related, it probably boils down to plugin selection. Personally, I print all my auto-align as part of the edit/session prep process. Once the tracks are aligned, I have never found a need to tinker with them further to justify keeping auto align as a realtime process. There is a lovely serenity in committing to a sound.

Beyond that... it is probably too many "smart" and lookahead plugins. 16383 samples equals 350ms of delay. That is a lot. The best sounding 'smart' process I have ever heard in my studio is my Trinnov, and it does all its processing in just 24ms.

You have a great set of ears on you, Angus. If you dig into the problem and find it is the result of plugin selection, I highly recommend returning a bunch of the processing back to basics. For highly complex resonances, the smart stuff has a place. Beyond that, it seems to quickly become a crutch of laziness for many audio engineers rather than something the genuinely improves the final product.
Thanks guys
Good points here
I must admit I'm enjoying the auto type plugins as a way of sorting out nasty stuff fast and easily
So then I can focus on creative EQ choices
In some sessions I get away with it (no red DC)
In others I don't
Need to get more serious about getting under the hood and really understand how PT works
I have a love / hate relationship with the software (am I allowed to say that here)
__________________
https://www.glasshousestudios.com.au

Mac Studio M1 Max
32 GB ram
macOS Ventura 13.1
24 core Metal 3 GPU
Avid MTRX Studio
Pro Tools Ultimate 2023.12
HDX card
AVID TB3 1 slot PCie Chassis
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Pro Tools 10 delay compensation problem TheLastHobson macOS 11 08-25-2013 12:50 PM
Pro Tools 9 Delay and Delay Compensation on Aux Tracks and Bussing CNSound macOS 1 01-27-2012 11:10 AM
Delay Compensation In Pro Tools LE RussUK General Discussion 22 12-10-2009 02:31 AM
Pro Tools 8 LE: Delay Compensation ETA? devkerr 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 18 01-21-2009 09:38 AM
My problem with Pro Tools HD 7.2 delay compensation jacko Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 5 03-19-2007 12:10 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:04 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com