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  #1  
Old 10-23-2023, 03:12 PM
frazzz frazzz is offline
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Default HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Hi,

I'm aware of the HDX capabilities for tracking with AAX DSP plugins as being superbly excellent BUT....

I'd like to ask about the Avid HD Native with the thunderbolt interface and the mini digi-link connectors for hooking up with HD Omni (for example).

I've tried to read up about it so I know something - Such as the FPGA chip to be used to the I/O to take the load off the CPU host computer - From what I've read this enables more plugins at lower latency but not as low as HDX.

OK, so, in a real tracking scenario is it possible to use native plugins (presumably AAX native) - for real time tracking? - or is this just not possible?

With HD native not having DSP for tracking it'd be good to known how bad this would be or how good this could be with some select plugins.

This is assuming a decent strong CPU with good single thread performance - Thanks
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  #2  
Old 10-23-2023, 03:49 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frazzz View Post
I've tried to read up about it so I know something - Such as the FPGA chip to be used to the I/O to take the load off the CPU host computer - From what I've read this enables more plugins at lower latency but not as low as HDX.
Nope. This is incorrect. There is nothing directly in HD Native that "takes load of of the host computer CPU" or allows you to run more plugins.

The FPGA chip is to provide hardware monitoring which lets you bypass Pro Tools for monitoring, but in doing that you *cannot* run plugins in that monitoring chain. The FPGA has nothing directly to do with "taking load off the CPU". It's not significantly different than the hardware monitoring available in many interfaces... most of which are implemented nowadays in FPGAs.

HD Native has lower latency than most interfaces because it bypasses the CoreAudio or ASIO layers in the operating system. But how smaller an HW buffer you can get away with depends an awful lot on your setup and workflow. HD Native comes at some cost of complexity and instability/recent driver issues. You should look at issues folks have been having over the last year or so. HD Native is beyond its end of sale life and has a few years of support left, whatever that means. I personally would not be rushing to get this stuff unless you have a good reason (use with HDX for tracking, use with video/Sync HD, need large I/O counts with HDX, as a spare for an existing rig) and know what you are getting into. For most users modern USB or Thunderbolt interfaces are likely just a better choice.

And if you are new to an Omni make sure you understand it's actual 8x8 DAW I/O limits.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 10-23-2023 at 04:16 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-23-2023, 04:57 PM
frazzz frazzz is offline
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Hi,

Great reply - Thanks for elaborating.

HD Omni is a small Avid interface with fewer inputs & outputs - This is understood.

It seems I'd be better off without HD Thunderbolt as I do have other interfaces to use.

Got my eye on a Carbon with the perpetual parachute - And very sorry for changing topic (but it will save creating another post) - If I got Carbon and let the one year support end for the Ultimate Perpetual - Then fell back on the Perpetual parachute - would this able to be used on an HDX card as well? (which I do have) but not used yet - Thanks
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Old 10-23-2023, 07:17 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frazzz View Post
Hi,

Great reply - Thanks for elaborating.

HD Omni is a small Avid interface with fewer inputs & outputs - This is understood.
Omni was/is a nice box for what it did. The warning here was because many people have understand the Omni is a smaller interface but are still confused by the actual physical I/O capability. It does not matter what is on the Omni in terms of connections, it is limited to a maximum of 8x8 I/O. This has caught out a number of users with the Omni, especially folks assuming they could expand it using the ADAT etc. Oh and the other limit of only one Omni per system and sometimes noisy cooling fans were issues for some folks. With older/used units you want to look out for display/LED issues.

Quote:
It seems I'd be better off without HD Thunderbolt as I do have other interfaces to use.
If you already have other interfaces that are doing what you need then I would stick with them.

The "Avid" interfaces that gets my attention now are the MTRX II and MTRX Studio with Thunderbolt option card. CoreAudio/ASIO with nice quality Thunderbolt driver from DAD.

Avid Carbon is a somewhat strange box. AVB but not really AVB. It's pretty limited in DSP power and you can't combine Carbons for more DSP. And it has had problems, I've lost track of where it is at with latency bugs/issues. I wonder if it will become an orphan, Avid shipped the Carbon expansion for it but... I would suggest trying to get your hands on one for a while and see if you like it. Is there anybody you know you can borrow one from?
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Old 10-23-2023, 08:15 PM
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JFreak JFreak is online now
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

The chip in HDN TB box enables headphone monitoring on the box, nothing more. HDN is still HDX without DSP.
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  #6  
Old 10-24-2023, 12:16 AM
frazzz frazzz is offline
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Hi - You mention the HD Omni can only do 8 I/O - 8 ins & 8 outs - I did not realise this - I looked at the I/O on the box and thought well it's not that bad (or good) for I/O - Until you mentioned 8X8 - Why only 8X8?
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  #7  
Old 10-24-2023, 01:43 AM
frazzz frazzz is offline
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Hello Daryl,

You mentioned:

The "Avid" interfaces that gets my attention now are the MTRX II and MTRX Studio with Thunderbolt option card. CoreAudio/ASIO with nice quality Thunderbolt driver from DAD.

With this MTRX Studio - If used in Native mode there is no DSP though is there? - And HDX card is needed for this side of things?
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  #8  
Old 10-24-2023, 06:21 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Quote:
Originally Posted by frazzz View Post
Hi - You mention the HD Omni can only do 8 I/O - 8 ins & 8 outs - I did not realise this - I looked at the I/O on the box and thought well it's not that bad (or good) for I/O - Until you mentioned 8X8 - Why only 8X8?
It is a marketing limitation. Avid wanted to sell HD I/O boxes as the main interfaces.
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  #9  
Old 10-24-2023, 07:07 AM
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Farhoof Farhoof is offline
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

Isn't it even 4x8 analog? 8x8 is digital only IIRC...
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  #10  
Old 10-24-2023, 10:12 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: HD Native (Mac or Windows)

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Originally Posted by Farhoof View Post
Isn't it even 4x8 analog? 8x8 is digital only IIRC...
True,

4 line inputs - or
2 line inputs and 2 mic inputs - or
2 line inputs and 2 DI inputs - or
2 line inputs and 1 mic and 1 DI input.

but more confusion seems to have been from the 8x8 capability to the DAW. I suspect most potential users are better at looking at the physical box/photos and noticing the multiple line and mic inputs are numbered the same and would assume they are the same... and so only give 4 analog inputs. The competently hidden limits to the DAW seem more insidious. Either way a vendor does not do well by customers by confusing them. And Avid keeps managing to do this.
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