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  #1  
Old 06-11-2023, 06:58 PM
Vercingetorix Vercingetorix is offline
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Default 11R Interface Problem ??

Hello all,

The last time I used ProTools (2021.12.0), I used it to to record some guitar though the 11R and another track using Bias FX2 thusly from the mixer window:

Image won't work so some reason so I'll have to manually put in the address!

This is the actual site so you can see it: https://imgbox.com/yKfrwfO5

After that I had a medical issue that stopped me playing for many months. So today after reading about this new magical program called Neural Amp Modeller (NAM) that I decided to get the program, get the guitar working through ProTools and then look into getting the next/best/free product on the planet and try and get it working as well.

Anyway, I couldn't get any sound out of either of the tracks. I realize that to get the sound through the BIAS FX track that I have to set the Eleven Rack editor to reamp - so, that is not the problem. Also the Standalone Bias FX2 is working I use it all the time to run to the studio monitors through the 11R for practice all the time. So, there is no sound through PT and I don't know what the problem is or how to fix it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
V.
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Last edited by Vercingetorix; 06-11-2023 at 07:10 PM.
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  #2  
Old 06-11-2023, 09:31 PM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

The screenshot was very helpful but several things looks wrong here, common mistakes, and you should be able to get going quickly.

For starters you have used instrument tracks for the guitars. Instrument tracks are fancy version of MIDI tracks, you use them with virtual instruments not with guitars, basses etc. They won't record or pass an audio signal though them. The Pro Tools Reference Guide PDF describes things like this very well, keep it open on your desktop and search for terms you don't understand like "instrument track".

You need to be working with audio tracks. And if they are dry guitar tracks they should usually be mono tracks, your instrument tracks in the screenshot are stereo.

Next is what Playback Engine is Pro Tools actually trying to use? What is Setup>Playback Engine>Playback Engine set to. Don't assume actually check since Pro Tools can change that on you when you are least expecting it.

I assume you are trying to use the Eleven Rack as the playback engine. But the output I/O selector names in your screenshot don't match the standard Eleven Rack outputs so that's a clue (but you could have renamed those). Start by making sure the correct playback engine is selected, and if the I/O selector names look wrong then go to Setup>IO and select and delete all paths then click the Default button on each of the {input, output, bus} pages.

Still having problems after correcting all that? Can you drag and drop a commercial MP3 or similar file onto the Pro Tool Edit window and let it create an audio track... can you then play that back? Can you record a wet guitar signal from the Eleven Rack? Can you record a dry signal? Do you see track meters moving even if you don't hear anything? They will be at very low levels if a dry signal until you have a amp sim plugin on the track. Try trashing prefs and starting over with a new completely empty session if nothing is working.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vercingetorix View Post
I realize that to get the sound through the BIAS FX track that I have to set the Eleven Rack editor to reamp - so, that is not the problem.
This makes no sense, Bias FX is a amp simulator plugin, you just insert it on a dry signal audio track. You would not normally reamp through the Eleven Rack *and* a guitar amp sim plugin, you normally use one or the other.

And if you recorded a dry guitar signal and want to reamp it through the Eleven Rack that's great but as a recommendation I'd record both the dry track (mono) and the wet track (maybe mono or stereo if you have stereo effects on the Eleven Rack rig) from the Eleven Rack when you are working, so you always have a reference for the tone you achieved/wanted while tracking.

And even better than reamping through the Eleven Rack box... do you have access to the Eleven Mk II plugins? They are included in the Avid Complete Plugin Bundle that you have if you have a current Pro Tools subscription or update/support plan for a perpetual license. And instead of reamping through the Eleven Rack just insert those plugins on the track. And the ACPB also includes all the Eleven Rack pedal effects as plugins as well, all really nice for reamping things just though plugins... and if you go that route you can mix and match amps sims and pedal plugins from Avid with any of the Bias amps or effects.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 06-11-2023 at 10:09 PM.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2023, 02:26 AM
Vercingetorix Vercingetorix is offline
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
For starters you have used instrument tracks for the guitars. Instrument tracks are fancy version of MIDI tracks, you use them with virtual instruments not with guitars, basses etc.
They were set up originally as Audio Track and the Eleven Rack use stereo inputs so that is not the problem. I added extra intrument track and they looked exactly the same and the same I/O, if that is what it is called.
https://imgbox.com/nm5ASrwm - Tracks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
Next is what Playback Engine is Pro Tools actually trying to use? What is Setup>Playback Engine>Playback Engine set to. Don't assume actually check since Pro Tools can change that on you when you are least expecting it.
https://imgbox.com/kIcDsubc - Playback


Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
I assume you are trying to use the Eleven Rack as the playback engine. But the output I/O selector names in your screenshot don't match the standard Eleven Rack outputs so that's a clue (but you could have renamed those). Start by making sure the correct playback engine is selected, and if the I/O selector names look wrong then go to Setup>IO and select and delete all paths then click the Default button on each of the {input, output, bus} pages.
I never touched them or renamed them they are just gone! I did try clicking on the default button on each and it only added one in the output, the rest nothing. The Midi controller and the microphone at the moment also don't work as there are no thingamies to put them through. I just don't know what to do. I did have an audio track that had an MP3 in it and it just wouldn't play at all I hit the play button on the Transport windows and nothing happenned at all

Quote:
Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm View Post
This makes no sense, Bias FX is a amp simulator plugin, you just insert it on a dry signal audio track. You would not normally reamp through the Eleven Rack *and* a guitar amp sim plugin, you normally use one or the other.
It doesn't. But I went through all this with Benoni and this was the only way I could get it to work, I also had a number of emails with a Dev trying to get this sorted to no avail.
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Last edited by Vercingetorix; 06-12-2023 at 02:56 AM.
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  #4  
Old 06-12-2023, 05:28 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

Are you trying to use the Eleven Rack as the playback engine? If you want to reamp with it you have to... but stuff is setup here just to playback through the computer speakers... which means you cannot use the Eleven Rack for anything, and it is not a great idea since those speakers are not ASIO, so are more prone to playback issues.

OK this is Pro Tools Intro so the UI here is a little different, but the Eleven Rack needs to be set as input and output. The names of your IO ports changed because the wrong playback engine was selected here and those names defaulted to what the (wrong) playback engine driver provided. Nothing unusual there, that is what it will do, (the counter here is this incredibly flexible and everything renamable IO subsystem is fantastic for working in large studio setups, but it can cause havock with new users). Select the Eleven Rack as input and output... it should show up there as an option if you have installed its driver on Windows. And then delete and default the IO inputs, outputs and busses as I described and the correct Eleven Rack IO port names should then be available in the IO selectors..

You **cannot** use instrument tracks here. I don't care they look similar to you they will never work. You need to delete those tracks and replace them with audio tracks. Any illusion they ever worked might have been the Eleven Rack's monitoring system producing sound independent of Pro Tools. Instrument tracks cannot and never did record any guitar signal and you cannot reamp or play back their signal through a guitar amp plugin, yes even though you can insert a plugin where it would go on an audio track it will not work. This confusion causes failure for so many folks trying to work with "instruments" like guitars in Pro Tools. So delete those tracks and get rid of this nonsense.

The Eleven Rack does *not* have stereo guitar inputs, if you are recording a dry guitar track, and you should, that track should be a mono audio track, the eleven rack output is stereo only if you have a stereo effect in its rig, For simplicity in getting started as a beginner you may be better off using only mono audio tracks for all guitar signals. Either way the eleven rack dry guitar track always should be mono. By working with a stereo track you are going to make stuff harder and more confusing for yourself. It is a common new user mistake to think a stereo session should have stereo tracks, almost all the audio tracks should be mono.

I am not sure the order you have been doing stuff in, but you need to get the Eleven Rack setup as the playback engine properly, the IO port names corrected, then you might as well forget these sessions with instrument tracks in them. You should have Eleven Rack Session templates available when you create a new session, I forget their names, but try starting with some of those and they will get you set up with tracks and IO selections... but you *must* have the Eleven Rack selected as the playback engine first. Then just work out how to record a dry and wet audio tracks from the Eleven Rack (use a template that includes the dry track) before inserting any plugins.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 06-12-2023 at 05:46 AM.
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  #5  
Old 06-12-2023, 05:58 AM
Vercingetorix Vercingetorix is offline
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

Ok, so from what you are saying I need to change the playback engine from Windows Audio device to ElevenRack.

So I did that, and it looks like all the routing thingamies are now correct. The Eleven Rack is now back as is the GuitarIn/Mic In on the audio tracks. So that's a step in the right direction .

I'm sure there are other things are wrong and I'll look further into that tomorrow bright and early.

Thanks for you help thus far!
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  #6  
Old 06-12-2023, 08:18 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

It might be worth searching youtube for some tutorials on Eleven Rack
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  #7  
Old 06-12-2023, 09:50 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

Damn it, I just noticed the most recent driver at least on macOS screws up the input naming, giving the illusion the guitar input is stereo. Who knows how many years it's been like this (I normally don't use my Eleven Racks as interfaces, instead they hang off a bunch or RME interfaces as outboard processors). I assume this is why you think the inputs are stereo. Thanks Avid, this is just annoyingly sloppy and would likely mess up many new users, e.g. cause the dry guitar signal to only be on the left channel. The guitar input and mic input are individual mono inputs, guitar input 1 and mic input 2.

These default settings are wrong:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1yfB...ew?usp=sharing

Here I have edited them to be correct.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OoP...ew?usp=sharing

The I/O names are actually only of importance to users, Pro Tools refers to an I/O by its number. So users can edit these to be wherever they want, but be careful it's easy to mess up and cause problems.

My edited .pio file is here: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ph3...ew?usp=sharing

You can click on the Import Settings button at the bottom of any of those Setup>IO pages to load this .pio file.
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Old 06-12-2023, 10:03 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

And Avid no longer includes the Pro Tools Eleven Rack session templates with Pro Tools. But here is a simple session with one dry and one wet track, a click track and a master fader. My .pio file from above was loaded here so it shows see the correct mono input names in the dry track I/O selector.

Screenshot:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1kmH...ew?usp=sharing

The session file "Eleven Rack.ptx":
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1q0l...ew?usp=sharing

(you can save as a template if you want).

Do *not* mess with Eleven Rack reamping, don't even try for now. Just unmute the dry track with the Bias Amp sim plugin on it and it will "reamp" in Pro Tools through that plugin.

Last edited by Darryl Ramm; 06-12-2023 at 10:51 AM.
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Old 06-12-2023, 10:05 AM
Darryl Ramm Darryl Ramm is online now
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
It might be worth searching youtube for some tutorials on Eleven Rack
Yes but after he gets stuff working again, he is close but going off and chasing new tutorials, yet more info now may just be more confusing info. Get it working now following the info I've given, then go look for tutorials.
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Old 06-12-2023, 08:29 PM
Vercingetorix Vercingetorix is offline
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Default Re: 11R Interface Problem ??

Quote:
Originally Posted by albee1952 View Post
It might be worth searching youtube for some tutorials on Eleven Rack
I have had the 11R since it was released in Australia, so, I know the 11R really well and it was made to plug 'n' play with ProTools. But when the plug 'n' play doesnt work, I have no idea how DAWs work nor the nonclemature of how to explain what is going wrong - and boy have I had some things go wrong. Most of what I used to do with instrument tracks, MIDI, and actually getting the MIDI controller working have been lost in the midst of time.

Fun times ahead. Fun times .
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Last edited by Vercingetorix; 06-13-2023 at 09:05 AM.
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