Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Hardware > Pro Tools | Sync X & SYNC HD

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-19-2023, 04:22 AM
LukeFromBerlin LukeFromBerlin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Berlin
Posts: 79
Default Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

Hi everybody,

I hope there is no thread on this yet, at least I coudn't find one...

I want (& have to :) use an external videoplayer in the future, instead of having ProTools itself playing the video - and sending it to a second screen from the same MacPro that Protools is running on right now. Main problem is the video de-compression that has to take place in realtime, becoming more and more difficult with the modern video files and formats I start receiving (supercompressed 4K ... etc).

I bought a second-hand, fairly modern MacMini for the job and am planning to use Millumin 4, a handy media-server app, that can play video controlled by external sync forms like LTC or MTC (Midi-Timecode).

I use a Sync IO hardware (the older model, originally from Digidesign and used to Sync my old ProTools HD 4 System)

What works fine so far, is the MacMini slaving to the Sync IO and playing it's quicktime videos in sync ....either by LTC via an USB Audio-interface (works better) or MTC via an USB Midi interface (works less well)
BUT: naturally only when ProTools is in PLAYBACK mode (running)...
(sorry, I use a VERY old version... 8.1 , I hope that is not an issue)

So be able for my new setup to act like it was before, meaning the video always moving with the playhead in protools, even when just jumping to a new spot withouth being in playback mode, or working on region borders etc I presume I will need to use VITC... ?

Here are my questions:

(1) I guess instead of using the "MTC Out" or "LTC" Out at the Sync IO hardware, I probably need to use the "Video Out" with the BNC connector then (?)

(2) Will ProTools play the VITC out there even without any incoming videosignal (via the "video in" connector) ?
I do not need any "real" video coming out, as the MacMini will play the video by itself, I just need a syncsignal. So a black burst or whatever including the VITC would be OK. I could also just load a very simple QuickTime Movie into the Protools sessions for that cause if this helps.

(3) I am afraid I will need to transform the VITC into LTC in some way, at least bec. the videoplayback software Millumin officially only reads LTC ?
Do I need additional hardware for that ?

(4) Can LTC also transmit sort of a "move the playhead to position X" signal, or does only VITC support that feature ?

(5) Any suggestions for a very cheap and simple hardware interface that makes the macmini able to read the VITC, possibly transmitted via a VIDEO signal ? Right now, as written, for tests I connected it via stereo audio interface or simple midi-interface for MTC/LTC, but now probably need to finde some way to get the BNC-video signal (not even sure what kind of signal this is) INTO the macmini for Millumin to read and recognize it.

Sorry, I am just a 98% musician and mixer and audio expert and have very little knowledge about videostuff.

Any suggestions (or perhaps better solutions) are greatly appreciated ! Please only note that I am a composer/artist in my private studio and can not afford super professional big budget video hardware solutions like a postprod.-facility...
Thank you !
__________________
Soft: ProTools 8.1
OS-X 10.6.8

Hard: ProTools HD 3, PCI-e core & accel, 96 I/O, 192 digital I/O, HD MADI / Sync I/O (not sync HD)
Quad-Core Mac, Intel
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-19-2023, 05:32 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,330
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

Why don’t you take a look at this?

https://non-lethal-applications.com/...5/video-sync-5

It might solve yours issues without over complicating things.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-19-2023, 07:09 AM
LukeFromBerlin LukeFromBerlin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Berlin
Posts: 79
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

Hi its2loud -

Thank you ! I don't know how you are using it in your hardware/software setup, but maybe you can help a little further:

It looks interesting, but I cannot use it on the protools system mac itself, bec. it is a far far too old hardware/software rig for it to run on it (and updating it all would cost me a fortune, my 5 different HD interfaces (192 io, MADI io etc) are without USB, old Protools HD standard, I would need a completely new Mac, ProTools software updates, some unique TDM Plugins I love wouldn't work anymore, overall 15.000 Eur at least etc)

So I am dependant on the external video player solution (on the MacMini). And here the problem is I guess: the Sync io would have to supply Midi-Machine Control - which I am afraid it doesn't (?)
I guess it only sends Midi-Timecode via Midi-Cable and Machine-Control seperately only via the 9-pin Sony P-2 protocol ports... (?)

So unless there is a piece of hardware involved that can kind of merge these together to a Midi-Machine-Control signal the MacMini and "videoSync" installed on it can read ... (via my Midi/USB Interface) I wouldn't know how to make it work
__________________
Soft: ProTools 8.1
OS-X 10.6.8

Hard: ProTools HD 3, PCI-e core & accel, 96 I/O, 192 digital I/O, HD MADI / Sync I/O (not sync HD)
Quad-Core Mac, Intel
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-19-2023, 08:13 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

Yes the Videosync app would be a great solution for you.

You're looking in the wrong place with VITC. That was relevant with VTRs (video tape decks). Not applicable to Quicktime.

You would use MMC/MTC and you don't need the Sync IO, just a MIDI interface on your PT machine and one on the Mac Mini.
__________________
~Will
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-19-2023, 08:29 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,330
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

Agreed. And Video Sync was originally designed to run on a separate system. MTC can be sent via a cabled Ethernet network if both machines are networked together.

https://non-lethal-applications.com/...-sync-option-4
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-19-2023, 09:32 AM
LukeFromBerlin LukeFromBerlin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Berlin
Posts: 79
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

Sounds great ! I think you are putting me on the right track with using the combination of MMC and MTC ! I presume MMC is responsible for sending the playhead information during pause and/or when I move it (plus propbably start/stop signals ?) and MTC during playback and to keep the sync steady during this... (?)

But how do I get ProTools (8.1) to send MMC ? without using the 9-pin oputputs ... ?
I could set up both, either (a) the Ethernet-network solution or (b) use my midi USB interface (but then I would need to use the physical MTC output of the Sync IO - which probably does not transmit MMC (?) on the one end. Or get a second USB Midi Interface)

I hope my ProTools is not too old for it to be able to send MMC and MTC via network/ethernet... and if not, how do I tell it to do so ?

Sorry for asking all these follow-up questions, but I know little about MMC/MTC etc and it feels like we are close to a solution for me :)
Thank you !!

PS: and I remember using VITC in the old days with videorecorders and being amazed that the sequencers would stay in sync (or try even during fast forward and stuff. That's why, and as the Sync IO has a "video out" where it is included, I thought this would be the right signal to use
__________________
Soft: ProTools 8.1
OS-X 10.6.8

Hard: ProTools HD 3, PCI-e core & accel, 96 I/O, 192 digital I/O, HD MADI / Sync I/O (not sync HD)
Quad-Core Mac, Intel
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-19-2023, 01:46 PM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,719
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

MMC is setup from the Peripherals page.

PT8 is fine, it supports MTC & MMC. It doesn't know that you're using a virtual MIDI port or real one. The only thing to test is the connection between the two computers. Apple has modified their networking protocols over the years with different OS X versions. You'd need to makes sure the two will communicate well. But once you get it set up networked MIDI is awesome.

That link its2loud posted has all the info you need.

I honestly forgot the Sync I/O had a MIDI Out port. So I can't recall if it is limited in some way. Try the networking first.
__________________
~Will
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-20-2023, 02:01 AM
LukeFromBerlin LukeFromBerlin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Berlin
Posts: 79
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

This is all great advice, thank you so much guys !
I kinda panicked yesterday bec. there was almost no info in the PT reference manual reg. all the config details, but then I installed the Demo version of videosync, and there are pretty detailled infos and config procedures (also reg. ProTools) included in the manual there ! MacMini is receiving MTC+MMC already (via Ethernet ! : ) also when the playhead is moved !! ... but still some playback issues. Right now I am trying to switch to using ProTools satellite instead which could/should make PT a a perfect "remote".
Will post a final message if everything works well, but once again BIG thank you and thumbs up for this solution !
__________________
Soft: ProTools 8.1
OS-X 10.6.8

Hard: ProTools HD 3, PCI-e core & accel, 96 I/O, 192 digital I/O, HD MADI / Sync I/O (not sync HD)
Quad-Core Mac, Intel
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-20-2023, 07:18 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 2,330
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

Quote:
Right now I am trying to switch to using ProTools satellite instead which could/should make PT a a perfect "remote".
A couple of things to consider if you’re trying to make Pro Tools on a different machine run as satellite.

Satellite likes to have same versions of Pro Tools running together via Satellite. Not sure if you are planning to run two PT8 systems together.

Satellite Link was a paid option for Pro Tools 8. Did you buy this option?

Video Sync can also run in Satellite mode with Pro Tools.

Try not to overthink this. It’s not super complicated and should get you relatively good sync across both machines.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-20-2023, 10:01 AM
LukeFromBerlin LukeFromBerlin is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Berlin
Posts: 79
Default Re: Syncing external video via SyncIO using VITC

The plan was to have videosync act as the satellite, PT as the admin, an option videosync offers. But well, it seems that doesn't work over here. I gave up on it. Not sure if it's the missing paid option or the network protocol differences between the old and new macmodels or anything else.

But I've set up the standard Midi MMC+MTC connmection now and it works fine so far ! The issue with videoplayback not starting was due to frame-rate differences, one machine was playing 24fps the other 23.98 fps... which was not obvious to see right away, I thought it was both 24fps

What I couldn't get working yet was the additional HUI connection to be able to have PT running in a loop with the TC jumping back every time ... it is thoroughly explained in the manual how to set up kind of a "fake" HUI using audio/midi setup, but I couldn't get it to work yet. But I will start the new production now, normal plaback works great and one day I will give it another shot with the HUI. I compose/create on another machine with logic, connected via Madi and PT is more for mixing/finalizing/mastering/exporting onto video, so I can cope quite well without the video looping... I rarely loopü there and if, it's ok to pause the video...

* sent by a happy new owner of VideoSync
__________________
Soft: ProTools 8.1
OS-X 10.6.8

Hard: ProTools HD 3, PCI-e core & accel, 96 I/O, 192 digital I/O, HD MADI / Sync I/O (not sync HD)
Quad-Core Mac, Intel
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
HELP! Need video-to-video syncing suggestions ASAP Erik Braund General Discussion 1 12-17-2006 09:04 AM
Syncing external sequencer with 7.1 Jerry Flattum Tips & Tricks 2 07-09-2006 09:38 PM
Can you slave PT to MTC timecode without a SYNCIO? Doug Carmichael Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 1 07-26-2005 12:50 PM
Video Ref, TC and VITC.... Pentium Post - Surround - Video 5 04-27-2005 03:04 AM
Syncing an external sequencer JIMTUCCI General Discussion 3 05-17-2000 09:26 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 02:23 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com