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  #1  
Old 02-14-2024, 05:23 AM
oortone oortone is offline
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Default 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

Hello!

In the following setup with two Avid Mtrx, HDX and an Apple Silicon computer running latest ProTools and DADman I got pops and clicks:

Concert Stage: MTRX SR S2 (2) as preamplifier for microphones mainly.

Connected via double optical Madi (aprox. 150m) to:

Control room: MTRX SR K2 (1) + HDX, Digilink x2 to computer for live recording, also some Dante in control room for monitor.

Sync is set up as shown in image 1, master being the MATRX in the control room and sync via Madi 1. Clicks and pops occur and Digilink turns red (image 2) and ProTools complain (image 3), not immediately but after a while. DADman sync indicator is green all the time. ProTools is set up as in image 4.

Some colleagues say it will work if I turn on the MTRX by the stage after all other things are up and running. Haven’t tried that yet (can not access the location at the moment) but it seems very strange to me. Is there something wrong with the sync and setup as shown in the pictures.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 1 dad sync.jpg (21.9 KB, 0 views)
File Type: png 2 digilink red.png (73.4 KB, 0 views)
File Type: png 3 pt timeout.png (71.1 KB, 0 views)
File Type: jpg 4 pt engine.jpg (29.6 KB, 0 views)
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  #2  
Old 02-14-2024, 05:38 AM
uptheoctave uptheoctave is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

Could we also see the MADI pages under CONF for each interface?

Some ideas:

What SFP's are you using?
I would in the first instance look at those and the physical cabling.

I would start by moving the remote MTRX to the same physical space as the MTRX next to the HDX cards and use the same SFP's and a shorter cable.

If that works then it could simply be a problem with the 150m cable.

If that doesn't work then it is something else, replacing the SFP's might be an idea?

I might also try syncing over Dante as a test.
Or using wordclock.

I wonder if DADlink might be an option here?
https://www.digitalaudio.dk/PRODUCTS/DADlink
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  #3  
Old 02-14-2024, 06:00 AM
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creativecontrol creativecontrol is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

What version of firmware do you have in your MTRX device?

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  #4  
Old 02-17-2024, 02:31 PM
oortone oortone is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

OK, thanks for the input. I can not do any changes myself and don't have access to the place right now. However some service guys will now try to replace parts of the madi installation which was apparently not top notch. I believe they will also try word clock.

I was curious if there was an obvious mistake just by looking at the sync settings. But of course I should have included more screen shots, sorry.

What puzzled me the most was that none of the DADman interfaces indicated a sync problem, all green and good alhough the sound was broken. Very strange. Only ProTools complained, after a while when it got really bad.
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  #5  
Old 02-22-2024, 11:05 PM
oortone oortone is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

Service technicians went through the system, cleaned or changed all madi connections but found no other errors. System seemed to work after that. My settings posted were correct according to them too.

Then on the day for the recording session, one hour before starting there where sync issues again. Had to switch to an Andiamo Mic pre and RME Madiface XT instead (using the control room MTRX as monitor only, via madi) instead, turned of MTRX on stage completely.

No issues since then.
Conclusion: MTRX Stage broken.
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  #6  
Old 02-23-2024, 04:26 AM
uptheoctave uptheoctave is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

Quote:
Originally Posted by oortone View Post
Service technicians went through the system, cleaned or changed all madi connections but found no other errors. System seemed to work after that. My settings posted were correct according to them too.

Then on the day for the recording session, one hour before starting there where sync issues again. Had to switch to an Andiamo Mic pre and RME Madiface XT instead (using the control room MTRX as monitor only, via madi) instead, turned of MTRX on stage completely.

No issues since then.
Conclusion: MTRX Stage broken.
Did you go through all of the troubleshooting approaches I listed above?
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  #7  
Old 02-23-2024, 09:22 AM
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creativecontrol creativecontrol is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

I would also still love to know what firmware version you are running in that MTRX device?

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  #8  
Old 03-06-2024, 12:13 AM
oortone oortone is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

Quote:
Originally Posted by creativecontrol View Post
I would also still love to know what firmware version you are running in that MTRX device?
See attached screenshot.

I have some more info:

>What SFP's are you using?
>I would in the first instance look at those and the physical cabling.
>
Madi SC-sfp
They tried switching SFP's and cable connections but problem remained the same, did not move with SFP's or cables.

>I might also try syncing over Dante as a test.
>Or using wordclock.
>
Wordclock cables are not available between these devices. Dante sync would be interesting to test next time.
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  #9  
Old 03-06-2024, 12:28 AM
oortone oortone is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

I'm also a bit curious of how to interpret the Sync menu in DADman.

The MTRX is connected to a ProTools HDX system. Thunderbolt from the computer (Mac Studio) to the HDX card and DigiLink to/from MTRX.

In the DADman Conf>Sync screen, Sync Source is "Internal" and Adapt to is "Digi Link 1".

What does "Internal" mean in this case? Is it the internal clock of DADman?
In that case, how can it adapt to Digi Link? Shouldn't it be the other way round? That is: HDX adapts to incoming DigiLink clock from DADman.

I notice that DigiLink is not available in the Sync Source menu in DADman Conf. Why is that?

If I remember correctly, when there were issues it was the Digilink input that went red in DADman, not the sync indicators and not the Madi from MTRX2.
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Old 03-06-2024, 12:42 AM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: 2x MTRX and HDX out of sync

Quote:
Originally Posted by oortone View Post
In the DADman Conf>Sync screen, Sync Source is "Internal" and Adapt to is "Digi Link 1".

What does "Internal" mean in this case? Is it the internal clock of DADman?
In that case, how can it adapt to Digi Link? Shouldn't it be the other way round? That is: HDX adapts to incoming DigiLink clock from DADman.
Digilink has no "clock". In Pro Tools HDX, the hardware attached is the clock. Digilink only provides the sample rate. (You have to think of sample rate as a defined number not the actual pulse/synchonization signal.)
So Internal means the MTRX runs on its own crystal for the clock. The "Adapt to" setting of Digilink means that Internal crystal follows what sample rate it should be at from what Digilink is telling it should be at. But that Digilink info isn't an actual clock (pulse reference)
Quote:
Originally Posted by oortone View Post
I notice that DigiLink is not available in the Sync Source menu in DADman Conf. Why is that?
For the reason I mentioned above. Digilink isn't a clock. It is sample rate information only. All the other options for Sync Source are actual clocks (they have a synchronization reference)

Put it this way, you can't clock anything to an HDX card. Even with HD IO or HD MADI or Sync HD (or Sync X), the actual clock comes from the attached hardware (without the SyncHD, SyncX, loopsync makes one of the attached hardware the sample-rate clock for multiple pieces of hardware and it is designated as the loop master.) Pro Tools (the software) through the HDX card tells the hardware what sample rate it needs to be (like the control panel for most normal audio interfaces.) But the actual clock is coming from the hardware. Same true for the MTRX hardware.
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