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  #1  
Old 02-04-2024, 03:02 AM
matthewstyles matthewstyles is offline
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Posts: 21
Default HDX Dante Question

I am working mainly mixing and mastering in stereo and Atmos, current config is:
Macbook Pro M1
Prism Titan
Grace m908
both are connected via Dante to my MacBook Pro using DVS.

It's been fine but there is a lot of latency and I want to have some my mastering hardware on inserts however the latency is too much. So I am considering a couple of options.

1 Get a HDX card + Rednet and connect that to the Grace/Titan via Dante

2. HDX card and switch the Titan Grace option cards to HDX and drop Dante

3. Get RME Digiface Dante and connect the whole Dante network like that which should hopefully be low latency enough to run the hardware inserts.

Ideally I would like to spend as little as possible in order to make this possible but the RME cards seem hard to come by.
I there any possible issues with using the HDX route instead?

Thanks for any insights!
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  #2  
Old 02-04-2024, 06:09 AM
uptheoctave uptheoctave is offline
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Location: UK
Posts: 719
Default Re: HDX Dante Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewstyles View Post
I am working mainly mixing and mastering in stereo and Atmos, current config is:
Macbook Pro M1
Prism Titan
Grace m908
both are connected via Dante to my MacBook Pro using DVS.

It's been fine but there is a lot of latency and I want to have some my mastering hardware on inserts however the latency is too much. So I am considering a couple of options.

1 Get a HDX card + Rednet and connect that to the Grace/Titan via Dante

2. HDX card and switch the Titan Grace option cards to HDX and drop Dante

3. Get RME Digiface Dante and connect the whole Dante network like that which should hopefully be low latency enough to run the hardware inserts.

Ideally I would like to spend as little as possible in order to make this possible but the RME cards seem hard to come by.
I there any possible issues with using the HDX route instead?

Thanks for any insights!
The problem is DVS.
Get rid of that and you won't have that latency issue.

What you replace it with it broadly up to you.

You can't use the old Rednet card with M1, you'll have to get the new one, which has a fan.
If in the machine room that may annoy.

Digiface Dante is great- I reviewed it for Experts and I was impressed and RME's drivers are top notch. Finding one can be tricky though and RME aren't embracing Dante as much as other companies.

HDX is still excellent for certain applications (tracking bands) and critical for a couple (anything requiring frame edge sync) but arguably people get better bang for the buck using a fast native interface with excellent drivers.

The DAD Core 256, AX Center or Avid MTRX Studio would be excellent choices.
I assume the Grace m908 has a Dante card in it?

If you go for any of the DAD/Avid devices you might find you don't need it.
I sold my Grace when I got the DAD AX64 (which is for sale- I am now using a MTRX II).

I don't know much about the Titan, other than it is quite old now.
Personally I'd be wary about sinking more money into old tech when there are so many good options out there for a lot less money.

Audient just announced a new Atmos interface, the Oria.
It is only USB2 (over USBC) but they have assured people that it is sufficient.
It will be significantly cheaper than the Avid/DAD devices.

In your shoes I'd probably get a Core 256, connect it to the Grace over Dante and you'd have 256 channels over Thunderbolt 3 to the Mac, expand with a few Dante IO boxes (Rednet A16R is a good option used) for your analogue IO..

Or sell the lot and get a MTRX II or DAD AX64 or AX Center.

There are a number of ways to do it, the main thing is to get rid of DVS as the backbone of your computer to converter connection. It isn't fit for purpose, imho.
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2019 Mac Pro, 2022 Mac Studio Ultra
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  #3  
Old 02-04-2024, 12:27 PM
matthewstyles matthewstyles is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Default Re: HDX Dante Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptheoctave View Post
The problem is DVS.
Get rid of that and you won't have that latency issue.

What you replace it with it broadly up to you.

You can't use the old Rednet card with M1, you'll have to get the new one, which has a fan.
If in the machine room that may annoy.

Digiface Dante is great- I reviewed it for Experts and I was impressed and RME's drivers are top notch. Finding one can be tricky though and RME aren't embracing Dante as much as other companies.

HDX is still excellent for certain applications (tracking bands) and critical for a couple (anything requiring frame edge sync) but arguably people get better bang for the buck using a fast native interface with excellent drivers.

The DAD Core 256, AX Center or Avid MTRX Studio would be excellent choices.
I assume the Grace m908 has a Dante card in it?

If you go for any of the DAD/Avid devices you might find you don't need it.
I sold my Grace when I got the DAD AX64 (which is for sale- I am now using a MTRX II).

I don't know much about the Titan, other than it is quite old now.
Personally I'd be wary about sinking more money into old tech when there are so many good options out there for a lot less money.

Audient just announced a new Atmos interface, the Oria.
It is only USB2 (over USBC) but they have assured people that it is sufficient.
It will be significantly cheaper than the Avid/DAD devices.

In your shoes I'd probably get a Core 256, connect it to the Grace over Dante and you'd have 256 channels over Thunderbolt 3 to the Mac, expand with a few Dante IO boxes (Rednet A16R is a good option used) for your analogue IO..

Or sell the lot and get a MTRX II or DAD AX64 or AX Center.

There are a number of ways to do it, the main thing is to get rid of DVS as the backbone of your computer to converter connection. It isn't fit for purpose, imho.
Thanks for the solid advice! It´s just what I needed the options seem clear now. I was just getting lost in the possibilities. The Grace and Titan both have Dante interfaces and the IO that I need, so makes sense to go RME or DADcore. I´ll see if I can grab an RME first.

One slightly off topic question but related because I see your setup.. Running an Avid EUCON controller, Dante & Lan do you use multiple VLANs on 1 managed switch? I read that EUCOn and DANTE should be separated.

thanks for your time.
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  #4  
Old 02-04-2024, 12:36 PM
uptheoctave uptheoctave is offline
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Location: UK
Posts: 719
Default Re: HDX Dante Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewstyles View Post
Thanks for the solid advice! It´s just what I needed the options seem clear now. I was just getting lost in the possibilities. The Grace and Titan both have Dante interfaces and the IO that I need, so makes sense to go RME or DADcore. I´ll see if I can grab an RME first.

One slightly off topic question but related because I see your setup.. Running an Avid EUCON controller, Dante & Lan do you use multiple VLANs on 1 managed switch? I read that EUCOn and DANTE should be separated.

thanks for your time.
No worries.

I have an S6 which needs to be on a separate network.
I am not using VLAN's, they are physically different switches as the S6 has its own switch.

I haven't tried using VLAN's, perhaps someone from Avid can comment on this.

I seem to remember someone saying something about Eucon having an issue with being on a tagged VLAN but I might be misremembering this. Apologies if this is vague.

The recommendation is that Eucon *should* be run on a separate network but previously I had a Dock which I was able to run on the same network as Dante but it depends on a lot of different factors.

As my network/studio grew I separated them.

Hope this helps.
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James Richmond
https://www.jamesrichmond.com

2019 Mac Pro, 2022 Mac Studio Ultra
Avid S6, HDX2, MTRX II, MTRX, DAD AX64, AX32, Focusrite Rednet PCIER, Trinnov MC8 Pro.
Studio: https://www.voltperoctave.com | Music: https://www.euclideancircuits.com
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  #5  
Old 02-06-2024, 03:41 AM
matthewstyles matthewstyles is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
Default Re: HDX Dante Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by uptheoctave View Post
No worries.

I have an S6 which needs to be on a separate network.
I am not using VLAN's, they are physically different switches as the S6 has its own switch.

I haven't tried using VLAN's, perhaps someone from Avid can comment on this.

I seem to remember someone saying something about Eucon having an issue with being on a tagged VLAN but I might be misremembering this. Apologies if this is vague.

The recommendation is that Eucon *should* be run on a separate network but previously I had a Dock which I was able to run on the same network as Dante but it depends on a lot of different factors.

As my network/studio grew I separated them.

Hope this helps.
Very much so thanks!
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  #6  
Old 02-08-2024, 07:09 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: HDX Dante Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by matthewstyles View Post

One slightly off topic question but related because I see your setup.. Running an Avid EUCON controller, Dante & Lan do you use multiple VLANs on 1 managed switch? I read that EUCOn and DANTE should be separated.
.
Remember that neither DVS nor Eucon support virtual interfaces on Mac so if you want to segment them with VLANs you can't just add a tagged virtual interface. You'll need a physical NIC for each one of them which kind of negates the elegance of VLANs as you'll have to run every protocol on their own connector to your switch. They also require different network settings. Eucon wants IGMP snooping off and Dante wants it on for multi-cast.

That being said I've been running Dante and Eucon on the same network segment for years and had zero issues (as the MacPRo only has 2 NICs and I need one of them for my studio LAN and I didn't want to mess with USB EN-dongles). Maybe that only becomes a problem when you surpass a certain channel count, so YMMV. For me it has been fine even with IGMP snooping on for the Dante/Eucon network on that VLAN segment.

Running 2-3 NICs on a Laptop isn't great. Tons of cable-spaghetti. But if you want to segment your networks you'll have to go with USB-NICs if you want to keep using DVS. Not an issue with a dedicated Dante card obviously.

Otherwise VLANs are awesome. Running physically different switches for every application throughout a studio is just cables times 10. I have one single copper cable coming into my room which fans out 5 different networks via the managed switch in my room. Really no need to run 5 physical cables through the walls for that.

Frank.
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Last edited by Frank Kruse; 02-08-2024 at 07:28 AM.
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  #7  
Old 02-08-2024, 10:59 AM
uptheoctave uptheoctave is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: UK
Posts: 719
Default Re: HDX Dante Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank Kruse View Post
Remember that neither DVS nor Eucon support virtual interfaces on Mac so if you want to segment them with VLANs you can't just add a tagged virtual interface. You'll need a physical NIC for each one of them which kind of negates the elegance of VLANs as you'll have to run every protocol on their own connector to your switch. They also require different network settings. Eucon wants IGMP snooping off and Dante wants it on for multi-cast.
Yes, this is what I had in the back of my brain somewhere but couldn't articulate.
Thanks for clarifying it.
__________________
James Richmond
https://www.jamesrichmond.com

2019 Mac Pro, 2022 Mac Studio Ultra
Avid S6, HDX2, MTRX II, MTRX, DAD AX64, AX32, Focusrite Rednet PCIER, Trinnov MC8 Pro.
Studio: https://www.voltperoctave.com | Music: https://www.euclideancircuits.com
Latest Article: Auto-Bounce for Logic Pro

Affiliate Links:
Auto-Bounce by Tom Salta
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