Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support

Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Mixing > Avid Pro Mixing General Discussion

Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 06-13-2019, 11:46 AM
JasonSoundDesigner JasonSoundDesigner is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: London, UK
Posts: 9
Default Controlling Aux Verbs in a final mix

Speaking more in a TV/Film Post-Production sense:

I have multiple Aux tracks with different verbs for different uses. I can pick and choose which track I send to each verb if and when needed.

All of my tracks have the output set to relevant mix busses (DIA, Sync, Foley, SFX, BG) and when I do a final mix I tend to just ride these mix bus faders as it's mostly already pre-mixed.

However, my aux verbs are all output to Main 1-2. This is because I might have a nice room verb Aux that I'm sending Sync, Foley and SFX tracks to so I cant output that aux verb to a specific mix bus. When I come to mix and I want to lower say SFX I can still hear it clearly because it's also running though the Aux verb and out the master.

So my options are:
1) Create aux tracks for each element ('Foley Room Verb' and 'SFX Room Verb') with the same verb settings
2) Output all Aux Verbs to a separate mix bus and group it with other mix buses when needed

Any other ideas? Just wanted to know if there is a smarter way of controlling 'multi-purpose' Aux Verbs when mixing with mix busses/sub mixes.

Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2019, 12:43 PM
Fixius Fixius is offline
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Sherman Oaks
Posts: 39
Default Re: Controlling Aux Verbs in a final mix

The old school way would be to send your sound to an effect, and then bus it back to a return track where you would record the wet signal of that sound, which you would then mix alongside the dry. Of course if you ever need to change the effect, you have to start over, and rerecord. This allowed mixers to send any track to any effect, meaning they didn’t need separate reverbs for each track, but also took more time, and required more commitment. Now, the name of the game is to always be able to change something at the drop of the hat, so constant organization and automation is key.

I tend to keep things separated, even if the plugin settings are the same across my auxes (which is rare). I automate reverb settings also, which allows me to change them by scene, and makes it easy to copy settings from my DX reverb, to my FLY reverb, if I insist they match. I usually tweak them from there though. Then my main aux tracks are bussed to predub tracks, and their corresponding reverb/other effects auxes are bussed to their own predubs. Each set of predubs gets bussed and mixed down to a stem. Having an FX predub, and an FX Verb predub, allows you separate control over wet/dry signals during the final, which is very useful. Depending on the complexity of the film, you may even have multiple predubs for FX, but that’s usually not necessary anymore if you’re mixing in the box. My finals are usually paired down to DX, MX, FLY, FX, SD, and BG predubs, with their corresponding effects predubs. All of those predubs are sent to stems, which are sent to the main out/printmaster.

So, basically, always keep things separate. You never want to send DX through a FLY reverb, just because you like the settings. It’s easier (and safer) to have dedicated effects channels and move settings around if necessary. You’ll end up with more tracks obviously, but you can always hide them, and aux tracks don’t take much processing power. Organization is the most important thing. Sorry for the wordy reply. I hope this answers your question. It’s one old school take on it anyway.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2019, 05:04 AM
JasonSoundDesigner JasonSoundDesigner is offline
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: London, UK
Posts: 9
Default Re: Controlling Aux Verbs in a final mix

Thanks Fixius! I appreciate the wisdom!

That's interesting to hear the history of having to track back the wet signal along side the original track. Yeah it sounds like more work but must have been nice to have a visual on everything rather than having to keep track of complex bus routing.

That makes sense I should have separate aux verbs for the different groups. I'll implement it in to my proj template and see how I go!
Reply With Quote
Old 06-17-2019, 01:34 PM
reichman's Avatar
reichman reichman is offline
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: New York
Posts: 2,412
Default Re: Controlling Aux Verbs in a final mix

+1 to Fixius' post!

Just to add a data point: on some projects, I have A/B reverbs, especially for dialog or ADR so I can switch seamlessly from one setting to the next DJ-style. Scene1 reverb A, Scene2 reverb B, Scene3 back to A... Altiverb used to automate between IRs slowly, but it's gotten faster, so not always necessary to A/B.

Anyway, don't be afraid to have dozens of verbs.
Nathaniel Reichman
Producer/Re-recording Mixer - New York
Nathaniel Reichman | IMDB | LinkedIn
Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2023, 07:04 AM
Mischdepp Mischdepp is offline
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Germany
Posts: 107
Default Re: Controlling Aux Verbs in a final mix

A/B reverbs here also for all Stems.
For dialogue, ADR and Foley I made separate groups for all the A and B reverb auxes with only Mix selected under Tracks and Insert a controls under Attributes. This way I just have to switch or edit on one Aux and all group members follow.
MacMini 8,1/ 32GB Ram/ OSX10.15.7/ ProTools Ultimate 2022.10 + 2021.12/ Focusrite Red4Pre/ BM Decklink Studio 2/ Avid S3
Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 08:19 AM
originalscottyg originalscottyg is offline
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Detroit
Posts: 1,368
Default Re: Controlling Aux Verbs in a final mix

I use separate verbs for all different deliverable stems (dx, fol, amb, fx, mx, etc.). I tend to use the same settings, or very similar, for dialog and foley, so I just have duplicate auxes routed to their appropriate busses and print tracks.
Scott Gatteño
Reply With Quote
Old 06-05-2023, 10:35 AM
smurfyou smurfyou is offline
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,722
Default Re: Controlling Aux Verbs in a final mix

Originally Posted by reichman View Post
Anyway, don't be afraid to have dozens of verbs.

A/B verbs and also different channel widths as needed. We don't have to limit ourselves as much as we used to!
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TDM Verbs Kenmillerjr VENUE Live Sound Systems 9 01-19-2012 04:32 PM
TC TDM verbs. pindebraende Post - Surround - Video 2 10-25-2007 12:55 PM
Waves IR-1 Vrs. other verbs supercell 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 17 12-29-2004 09:29 AM
plug-in verbs vs. hardware verbs bruceup Tips & Tricks 38 03-18-2004 02:11 PM
HD Verbs RickyG Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 12-13-2003 11:05 PM

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:06 PM.

Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com