Unable to Create an Aux Bus Send to Reverb

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by albee1952

Just a personal preference; for reverb and delay, I would NOT set them up as hardware inserts. I would send out via physical output(or outputs)to the hardware, and return the hardware back thru physical inputs. Just a holdover from decades of analog setups.

Obviously everybody has their own personal preference for work flow

BUT
I'm not clear on what you are saying ? When you set up hardware effects as (hardware inserts) you still do in fact have to "send out via physical outputs to the hardware and return the hardware back thru physical inputs " And it makes no difference weather it's a Reverb Delay EQ or Comp etc . We are after all talking outboard Fx units, which have to have physical connections ?????????????
Myself :
I can't think of any objective reason to not set up time domain effects as hardware inserts, the physical connections and routing are same wether as hardware inserts (in the inserts section of the track) or routed in the PT tracks virtual out's and in's section..
The main difference set as a hardware insert , is that its a simpler, less complex and a more flexible way to use hardware effects inside PT (routing configuration wise)

Less complex because like just a plugin insert, you are simply instantiating it on the track itself or on a parallel fx AUX track and do not have to mess with changing track outputs and then involve another track to return the effected signal.

[Mixmaster Rick]

To K Roche:
Thanks for sending the images. I appreciate it. What I'm not seeing, or understanding is what you are using as the Send. Is it via a Bus; SENDS A-E > bus or are you using SENDS A-E > output? I AM able to use the RMX by using the Send from an Output as well as the Returns. I was hoping to use the Bus side of things. What's the general consensus with all of you? For all of my other Analog gear I understand the "INSERTS A-E > i/o

Darryl - ADC is enabled and I am in very good shape there thanks!

[Darryl Ramm]

Kev is doing the same as my send example. The sends are going direct to the aux input track. In his case he named that track, the IO Outputs and inserts with all the same name. Which I think is nice, but maybe name them slightly differently when you are getting started doing this to make clear what is what.

All that matters to do what you want is to have hardware inserts on an aux IO track and have whatever signal(s) the effects is going to apply to originate from a send(s). You can route stuff between the sends and the aux however you want, send to a bus and then use that bus as input to aux input track if you prefer, and many folks would setup like that, obviously if combining multiple sources into that time effect (routing via a bus or direct to a track it is all the same, it is just cosmetic/convenience to what you prefer). Just start by getting something working, can you copy the simple example I gave with the one audio track and one aux IO with hardware insert on it? You can the add another audio track, change the sends to go to a bus if you prefer etc.

Why don't you try that, and if it is not working describe what exactly is or is not happening and include screen shots of your mix window showing I/O, inserts and sends and of your Setup>IO {input, output, bus and insert} pages. Do initial testing with just a straight though cable as an insert.

[K Roche]

Originally Posted by Mixmaster Rick

To K Roche:
Thanks for sending the images. I appreciate it. What I'm not seeing, or understanding is what you are using as the Send. Is it via a Bus; SENDS A-E > bus or are you using SENDS A-E > output? I AM able to use the RMX by using the Send from an Output as well as the Returns. I was hoping to use the Bus side of things. What's the general consensus with all of you? For all of my other Analog gear I understand the "INSERTS A-E > i/o

Darryl - ADC is enabled and I am in very good shape there thanks!

So Ok as for the "Send" --- yes I am using a Sends BUS selection not a Sends Output selection (don't know if that matters it's just how I have always done it)


Here You can see I have the Sends Bus (named M7 --Red Arrows ) which is also becomes the Reverb's Aux track Input . (Yellow arrow ) And as I mentioned the (dark purple ) Aux track is also named M7, and as per my previous screen shots the physical Inputs and Outputs for the Reverb unit itself are also named M7 , which is why the Hardware Insert in the (dark purple Reverb ) Aux track "Hardware Inserts I/O " is also named M7

Note my 2 channel Bus Compressor (named 3U) is also instantiated as a Hardware insert, directly in the inserts section on my Main Sub Bus mix track (Orange track) named 2 Mix -Green Arrow, with no SEND involved

I hope this all makes sense ?

[Darryl Ramm]

Oops sorry Kev was using a bus.

Here is a simple as possible session with two audio tracks via a bus to a hardware insert on an aux IO track, I've deliberately not renamed anything so you can see what is what from the default names. In a real situation I'd rename everything here (similar to Kev).

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aIX...ew?usp=sharing

Can you get the equivalent to that working? Look out for messed up I/O settings, maybe duplicate names, you may need to Default those or worse case delete some or all paths and Default the IO and reconstruct any custom names you had.

[K Roche]

Ok so I thought I would do what Darryl suggested you might do just to show you what my system looks like with screen shots of my I/O set up tabs

So my two Hardware Effects are both two channel the two channel... Bus Compressor (3U) is connected to physical channels 5-6 (yellow arrows), and the two channel Reverb unit (M7) is connected to physical channels 7-8 (Lite blue arrows)
not I increased the image size a bit to be more readable

Input Tab



Output Tab



Bus Tab




Insert Tab

[Mixmaster Rick]

Folks,

I just wanted to say thanks for all of your efforts. I'm probably not grasping everything I should so thanks for your patience. I am attaching my IO Setup. If you could, please review it and tell me if I'm on the right track. As I said previously, it is working - I just prefer to send via a Bus but then again, as I use it in its current state it seems logical as well. I may need to adapt my thinking

[Mixmaster Rick]

And one more attachment

[Darryl Ramm]

(Love those arrows Kev)

And OK some thought on troubleshooting... [edit: Rick I posted this when you were posting your screenshots, but I'm suspecting you have I/O not lined up correctly and that was what I was posting about below, especially easy with Apollo interfaces... can you confirm you have matching numerical I/O pairs used for the insert? I'm not totally sure what you mean by "is working"... but I'm guessing you mean is working when you use outputs and inputs directly but is not working as a hardware insert... in which case the I/O pair not matching issue is the big suspect.]

Since you are going down the nice path using hardware inserts. If you need to troubleshoot routing and are unsure if the hardware insert is at fault or not. Just remove it from it insert slot and replace it with some gross sounding very obvious and unique in your mix software plugin, like a pitch shift or very distorted amp sim and see if that plugin passes/affects signal when the insert does not.

Remember that the most common problem getting hardware inserts to work in Pro Tools is not having the I/O lined up like it needs to be. An insert pair must consist of matching input and output I/Os. And by matching this means the numerical order of the input and outputs ports exposed by the device driver to Pro Tools. The names of inputs and outputs, and any numbers in those names, do not matter at all, some interfaces offset stuff so say output 1 is really output number 3 etc. So in that case you have to ignore the names and use insert pairs that numerically match.

With your setup with Apollo interfaces, the names returned by the console setup via the driver to Pro Tools are completely irrelevant. Go into Pro Tools Setup>IO input and output and count down the same number of paths and those are the I/O pairs that make up an insert pair. (you may need to default the I/O first) If you are cascading multiple Apollo interfaces it may be possible for that to cause an offset depending on the order you cascade things, I can't recall what all the I/O compliments of all those boxes are and/or I'd have to see the IO setup to be sure. But say even if the Apollo 16 interface is first or only box appearing in Pro Tools the names of the outputs are shifted by two because of the Main XLR Outputs really being output #1 and output #2. You have to make sure you match the numerical I/O pairs, not say use line 1 out and line 1 in in a insert pair in this case. (This whole matching I/O silliness is part of the UI/UX that badly needs to be improved with hardware inserts, but it's still worth persevering to get them to work since they are so nice to use).

[Mixmaster Rick]

You guys are fantastic - REALLY appreciate your efforts. Kinda scared as to what I'm seeing and I'll explain in a minute.

First off though - my interfaces. Yes, all Universal Audio

Apollo X16 > Apollo X8 > Apollo X6 > Apollo X6 > Octo Satellite > Quad Satellite

Patchbays - two Switchcraft 9625

Darryl, did you have a screenshot that showed your OUTPUT offset by two? My Output has as you can see 1-2 for my MAINS as well as my Insert being offset by two, starting at 3-4. Have I got this setup correctly?

Am I just looking for stuff that's not there? I mean, I have it working using the Send to Output vs a Send to Bus. I was just trying to be consistent with how I instantiate a Plugin by using a Bus.

Also, the RMX16 has a single Mono Input and two Outputs.

Thanks!