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  #1  
Old 01-31-2000, 04:59 AM
Azman Azman is offline
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Default Synching to Video

Hi everyone,
As a potiential buyer of the digi001, I'm interested to know if the system has any option to sync to video. Evrything else seems to be top notch...
If so, has anyone ever used it to sync audio to video. My work primarily involves synching betacam to a DAW for film work.
Thanx in advance

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  #2  
Old 01-31-2000, 05:37 AM
Tom Hartman Tom Hartman is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

It does not.

That said, it's not that big a deal to get a Quicktime movie made of the spot and work with that. More and more of us working in post are doing that now, just get some burn in on the movie. Beats dragging a machine around all day back and forth, and a lot less expensive.
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  #3  
Old 01-31-2000, 06:28 AM
MikeC MikeC is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

That sounds the best way to do it. I would have thought you could also sync to SMPTE using a SMPTE->MTC converter. The problem here is that you don't have a SMPTE counter.

Will this work because my midi interface can convert SMPTE to MTC?

Cheers

Mike
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  #4  
Old 01-31-2000, 07:31 AM
Azman Azman is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

That might just do it...MTC to SMPTE converter...I have on in the storeroom somewhere. You're right about the SMPTE counter tho..
However, if i decide to go to the QT route, wouldnt that strain the computer as the sytem is already CPU dependant ?


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  #5  
Old 01-31-2000, 03:42 PM
onethousandpercent onethousandpercent is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

My understanding is that unless you buy TDM, you cant do proper sync. That is, you can only do trigger sync with the "LE" setup. I am debating whether i can do sound design for a 30 minute movie if i dont have pulldown or SMPTE timeline. The timeline is a mere inconveniece...i can calculate the difference and things should stay in sync (60:24:100 in seconds = 1:00:24:03 in timecode). But the lack of pulldown has me worried. Anyone else facing a similar issue? I am kind of new at this stuff (obviously) and i hesitate to take such a huge risk.

Thanks for any help!!!

-Josh
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  #6  
Old 01-31-2000, 10:36 PM
Kasper Kasper is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

onethousandpercent-

Need more info.

What is Your set up ?

AMIII, 001 ? or are you waiting to buy ?

Regardless, You will need to resolve the hardware to a pulled-dwn sample rate if You record in at film speed(30fps)

W/the AMIII or 001 You will need something that can send a pull-dwn rate via SPDIF.
The pull-dwn menu that was taken out of "Le" is not really an issue since You can't see TC anyway. This is only a display factor and has no effect on the actual clock that the hardware is resolving to.(atleast this has been the case in the past, maybe Digi has somehow managed to cripple this too) But, if You need to calculate SMPTE times from the hr:min;sec;ms display then this will not work.

Of course if Digi just put the frickin TC display and spotting features back in the world would be a beautiful place.

How is the show going to be edited ? If they are editing on video, prob.the case, then the audio will be pulled-dn when they do the telecine transfer. You can work with this audio without needing to pull it dwn. It will ultimately have to be pulled back up to film speed if this is going back to film for projection.

Anyway, if You need to output the entire show to a DAT or something where You need to run in real time for the whole 30 mins You will need to be resolved to an external source regardless of a pull-up or pull-dwn. The internal clock in PT will not be good enough for anything near that length.

Anytime You work w/video You need to lock the whole system to Blackburst. This then gets translated to other clock formats such as Wordclock and SPDIF sync. You need something like the MOTU Digital Timepiece if You are trying to resolve any device w/SPDIF sync.
You also need a Blackburst generator.

kasper
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  #7  
Old 02-03-2000, 01:58 PM
onethousandpercent onethousandpercent is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

kasper & any other smart people:

thanks for the advice. i find it semi-confusing, as i am not used to all the jargon. My setup is a B&W G3 w/ AMIII and a FUSE card. My plan is to digitize the video at 29.97 so i dont have to worry about the missing PULLDOWN feature. Similarly, i will digitize the sound (from Nagra) into a new PT 4.3 session that is set up as 29.97 with Pulldown on. Hopefully, this will make all my sound elements video speed. Now i go do all my effects and dialog editing in PT 5LE. After i finish, they can simply PULL UP the audio. Am i nuts? Hope not!!!

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  #8  
Old 02-03-2000, 03:38 PM
Kasper Kasper is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

1000%-

STOP !!!!!

There are some basic points about the dif. between film speed(30 FPS) and video speed(29.97 FPS) that You need to understand.

When film is shot the camera usually runs at 24 FPS but the audio that is recorded on NAGRA or TC DAT has 30 FPS TC or a 60hz pilot tone.

Video runs at 29.97 FPS. So,the speed of the audio needs to be slowed down by 0.1% to match the video.

You need to slowdown the audio, ie, change the sample rate from 44.1 to 44.056.

Just changing the TC display or engaging the pull-dwn will NOT change the speed of the audio. These menus in PT only change the way TC is displayed and do not change the speed.

I will try to out line what You will need to do this-

1) The AMIII has to be resolved via the digital input to something that can translate blackburst to SPDIF sync. The MOTU Digital TimePiece is one box that will do this.

2) A blackburst generator. A simple box that sends a black video signal to the MOTU box.

3) If You are transferring NAGRA tapes make sure that the NAGRA has the ability to resolve to its own internal crystal. Some do not.

4) Once You have everything set up transfer with the AMIII locked to the external ref.at 44.1. When You playback in PT set the external ref. to 44.056.

You must record the film speed audio in at 44.1 and then pull it down to 44.056 to have it match the picture on video.

You must have an external SPDIF sync that can do a pull down.

If You are recording short takes of dialog or SFX from the NAGRA, You can get away with not doing the pull dwn. This is technically not correct but it can work if the takes are short enough. Just line it up with the picture and what You see, is what You get. Trim a few frames out here and there to make it match.

IMPORTANT-You will still need to have an external video ref.if You plan to run in sync and output a finished DAT that will later be pulled up.

To run for any length of time in sync You MUST have an external ref.

Also, I have found when working with anything longer than a few mins. that having the picture on video tape is much more reliable than working with a QT movie. Maybe I am old fashioned, but I don;t have to worry about frame rates or taxing the system trying to play back video. Just get a window burn with TC on one of the audio channels and the dialog on the other. This gives You a rock solid ref. for sync. Of course, I am assuming the film was transfered to video at some point. If it was then You could use this audio as well because it will already be pulled-dwn.

kasper

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  #9  
Old 02-04-2000, 11:46 AM
onethousandpercent onethousandpercent is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

Kasper

thanks for all your time and help! It is amazing how much gear is needed to do things *properly*

i am digitizing the NAGRA sound, then i will batch convert it in SoundEdit 16 (my favorite program ever created) to the 44.056 sample rate.

Thanks for confirming and clearing up things that i am timidly learning as i go. If you are still with me here, i wonder what settings you suggest for the Quicktime video. That is, should i digitize it at 29.97 so it matches the pulled down NAGRA audio?

Thanks again, and please pray that Powermix has enough juice to get the job done!


i owe you one (or 2)!!!
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  #10  
Old 02-04-2000, 09:00 PM
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Ed Douglas Ed Douglas is offline
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Default Re: Synching to Video

1000%

One more thing.... Powermix does not lock to incoming timecode! The only way to work with picture with the Powermix engine is with a quicktime movie.

E.D.

[This message has been edited by Ed Douglas (edited February 04, 2000).]
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