Hardware inserts in PT Studio: is there a plugin to route inputs and outputs?

[trtzbass]

Greetings all.

I've been getting into hybrid mixing more and more and use a MOTU 896HD as the hub for my lunchbox and outboard. I'm a S1 and Logic user but want to use PT more because I love the workflow and editing capabilities.
If I understand correctly, the use of hardware I/O s requires to use ports with the same number, so Insert 1 uses Input 1 and Output 1 and so on.
Unfortunately my MOTU maps the main outputs as 1 and 2 so it effectively staggers the symmetry of I/Os (if that makes sense). That way Output 1 is coupled with Input 3, etc...
Obviously that means that I can't use PT HW inserts unless I plug my outboard to accommodate the quirk, which also would mean losing two extra I / O ports that I'm currently using for my compressors.
Is there a plugin to manage HW I/Os very much like the other DAWs?
Thanks for your help

[Emi]

I think if you pair as you said 1 in to 1 out you´ll be fine.

PT will see main outputs as main ouputs.

Patch it in and see if it works.

[trtzbass]

Originally Posted by Emi

I think if you pair as you said 1 in to 1 out you´ll be fine.

PT will see main outputs as main ouputs.

Patch it in and see if it works.

Tried that already and it doesn't, unfortunately.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by trtzbass

Tried that already and it doesn't, unfortunately.

Bzzzzt. Hardware inserts *will* work just fine as long as you observe the 1:1 mapping requirement of Pro Tools. And thats 1:1 mapping is of the physical I/O port numbering, not the port names. Pro Tools does not care about the numbers in the goofball names Motu gives to the ports, only the actual port numbers... which you can get by counting down the ports in Setup>IO or the order ports are listed in the I/O selector pulldowns, starting at 1 at the top and increasing as you go down the list.

Pro Tools and other DAWs don't care about or use any of these I/O port names they are purely created for your convenience, except here MOTO screws up, so ignore their names. If you don't like them and actually want the symbolic names to "line up" you can rename them all in Setup>I/O again all that is there just to create labels for you.

DUC has lots and lots of post in the past from folks who claim hardware inserts are not working for different reasons... and every last one of them end up not having the 1:1 mapping correct. The smart folks work out how to get the 1:1 mapping to work fairly fast.

[trtzbass]

You'll have to bear with this less than smart person then, Darryl.
I'm sure I've tried that and it didn't work. Surely I'm wrong, but don't let that keep you from lecturing me x

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

Bzzzzt. Hardware inserts *will* work just fine as long as you observe the 1:1 mapping requirement of Pro Tools. And thats 1:1 mapping is of the physical I/O port numbering, not the port names. Pro Tools does not care about the numbers in the goofball names Motu gives to the ports, only the actual port numbers... which you can get by counting down the ports in Setup>IO or the order ports are listed in the I/O selector pulldowns, starting at 1 at the top and increasing as you go down the list.

Pro Tools and other DAWs don't care about or use any of these I/O port names they are purely created for your convenience, except here MOTO screws up, so ignore their names. If you don't like them and actually want the symbolic names to "line up" you can rename them all in Setup>I/O again all that is there just to create labels for you.

DUC has lots and lots of post in the past from folks who claim hardware inserts are not working for different reasons... and every last one of them end up not having the 1:1 mapping correct. The smart folks work out how to get the 1:1 mapping to work fairly fast.

[Darryl Ramm]

You can be comforted by knowing it *will* work and now you know it's only the physical port numbers that matter (that part is *not* obvious) you can hopefully sort this out quickly.

The smarter comment was not aimed at you being stuck now, it's folks that after all this is explained want to keep arguing it does not work. It works, or you would have many other users complaining about it here, major studios falling over with problems etc. And.. nope it works.

If stuck start by confirming you get signal out on an insert pair output (like use a headphone and headphone amp to check for signal) if you are lost where the input is going to probe all the inputs using a cable from that output you've confirmed works. Just use a straight through cable to test, to start with, that avoid any problems with the actual hardware box you want to insert. Driving the insert output with the signal gen plugin can make stuff easier to debug. Check the cable with a multimeter to be sure it's straight though. Folks who do this a lot will often have a set of test cables made up that do handy things like add headphones or multimeters (for when testing with a signal generator) in the insert.

[trtzbass]

Thanks this is very useful indeed. I'll go through your method and try to see if I manage to make sense of it and let you know how it's going. The system works indeed if output 3 is routed to input 1, etc; did quite a few mixes with that configuration but now I have as many outboard units as I have outputs and I'd be losing two channels if I did that.
I know that UAD Apollos have the same quirk and the drivers have a specific PT mode that realigns the outputs.
I will dig deep in the MOTU config window again, but so far I couldn't find a way to reroute 1 - 2 to 9 - 10. Happy to try again, I might have missed something somewhere; you'd think that'd be a fairly standard thing to achieve

Originally Posted by Darryl Ramm

You can be comforted by knowing it *will* work and now you know it's only the physical port numbers that matter (that part is *not* obvious) you can hopefully sort this out quickly.

The smarter comment was not aimed at you being stuck now, it's folks that after all this is explained want to keep arguing it does not work. It works, or you would have many other users complaining about it here, major studios falling over with problems etc. And.. nope it works.

If stuck start by confirming you get signal out on an insert pair output (like use a headphone and headphone amp to check for signal) if you are lost where the input is going to probe all the inputs using a cable from that output you've confirmed works. Just use a straight through cable to test, to start with, that avoid any problems with the actual hardware box you want to insert. Driving the insert output with the signal gen plugin can make stuff easier to debug. Check the cable with a multimeter to be sure it's straight though. Folks who do this a lot will often have a set of test cables made up that do handy things like add headphones or multimeters (for when testing with a signal generator) in the insert.

[BScout]

You have to use MOTU's Audio panel to re-route the order to line things up. (you can even use the virtual busses there.) You can do it such that no channels are lost (unable to be used)

[trtzbass]

I don't think I can do it with the drivers I have installed (and I have the latest possible). Looked everywhere but there is no way to patch channels like you say. To be fair - my audio interface is quite old, I don't think they ever implemented the function. Let me see if by any chance there is an updated driver for it, maybe I'm wrong there

Originally Posted by BScout

You have to use MOTU's Audio panel to re-route the order to line things up. (you can even use the virtual busses there.) You can do it such that no channels are lost (unable to be used)

[BScout]

Originally Posted by trtzbass

I don't think I can do it with the drivers I have installed (and I have the latest possible). Looked everywhere but there is no way to patch channels like you say. To be fair - my audio interface is quite old, I don't think they ever implemented the function. Let me see if by any chance there is an updated driver for it, maybe I'm wrong there

Sorry didn't notice it's the 896HD. That is fairly ancient. All the "new type" MOTU hardware can do it (going back 5-6 years) but they use a different driver system.

So it will be dependent on if MOTU made a new driver that enabled things (like CueMix became a router too or the control panel allows you to re-order channels.) If not, you'll have to deal with the offset