Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Software > Virtual Instruments

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06-01-2010, 04:09 PM
Stig Eliassen's Avatar
Stig Eliassen Stig Eliassen is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norway @ Studio Varmt & Trangt
Posts: 7,455
Default McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

I've demoed this synth using the TDM version, and today I decided to switch to RTAS. The timing accuracy sucks! Up to 41 ms late compared to the TDM version, and not consistent either.

Anyone else seen this?
__________________
Studio rig - Pro Tools|HDX 2018.7 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | Avid HD I/O (8x8x8) | 6-core 3.33 Westmere w/24GB RAM | OS 10.12.3 | D-Command ES | Eleven Rack | Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Mobile rig - Macbook Pro i7 w/16GB RAM | UA Apollo 8p | Pro Tools|HD 2018.3 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | OS 10.12.6
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06-01-2010, 04:55 PM
Eric Lambert's Avatar
Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,718
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by PT Lover View Post
I've demoed this synth using the TDM version, and today I decided to switch to RTAS. The timing accuracy sucks! Up to 41 ms late compared to the TDM version, and not consistent either.

Anyone else seen this?
Delay compensation should make them the same. Something's not right.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 06-01-2010, 05:28 PM
Stig Eliassen's Avatar
Stig Eliassen Stig Eliassen is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norway @ Studio Varmt & Trangt
Posts: 7,455
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

Quote:
Delay compensation should make them the same. Something's not right.
Well, it doesn't. I made two stereo audio tracks where I, with ADC on, printed one RTAS version and one TDM version. TDM was nice and tight, but RTAS was late and sloppy.

I tried different things like toggle ADC on/off, duplicate the instrument track, de-activate/re-activate the instrument track. Nothing made it better.
__________________
Studio rig - Pro Tools|HDX 2018.7 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | Avid HD I/O (8x8x8) | 6-core 3.33 Westmere w/24GB RAM | OS 10.12.3 | D-Command ES | Eleven Rack | Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Mobile rig - Macbook Pro i7 w/16GB RAM | UA Apollo 8p | Pro Tools|HD 2018.3 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | OS 10.12.6
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06-03-2010, 05:11 AM
Stig Eliassen's Avatar
Stig Eliassen Stig Eliassen is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norway @ Studio Varmt & Trangt
Posts: 7,455
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

I've now tried importing a synth track (TDM) into a new session, and it sounds fine. Switch to RTAS - disaster.

Also tried with a new track in a new session. TDM is fine, RTAS is not.

I've contacted McDSP support.
__________________
Studio rig - Pro Tools|HDX 2018.7 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | Avid HD I/O (8x8x8) | 6-core 3.33 Westmere w/24GB RAM | OS 10.12.3 | D-Command ES | Eleven Rack | Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Mobile rig - Macbook Pro i7 w/16GB RAM | UA Apollo 8p | Pro Tools|HD 2018.3 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | OS 10.12.6
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 06-03-2010, 12:35 PM
mcdsp's Avatar
mcdsp mcdsp is offline
McDSP
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 33
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

Howdy everyone,

about the response from McDSP's Synth One TDM vs. RTAS version...

I assume you are talking about when you play a note, and see the actual audio output from the synth. If I am not understanding something correctly please let me know.

For said playing response - yep, TDM is pretty darn consistent (and fast!). RTAS - not as good - acknowledged. If you are using large buffer sizes (1024, 2048, ...) the 'note playing' part of the synth engine may get stalled - causing the performance you are observing.

There have been a few changes to Pro Tools since Synth One was released, and in particular in Pro Tools 8.0. There might be some new SDK features we could take advantage of, however that is not planned in our upcoming release. I can certainly put the request in the engineering queue for the next release.

But in general, what you have observed is why there is a TDM version in the first place - low latency and little CPU hit.

Thanks for checking out McDSP plug-ins!

Colin McDowell
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06-03-2010, 01:23 PM
Stig Eliassen's Avatar
Stig Eliassen Stig Eliassen is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norway @ Studio Varmt & Trangt
Posts: 7,455
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

Quote:
I assume you are talking about when you play a note, and see the actual audio output from the synth. If I am not understanding something correctly please let me know.
That is correct.

Quote:
For said playing response - yep, TDM is pretty darn consistent (and fast!). RTAS - not as good - acknowledged. If you are using large buffer sizes (1024, 2048, ...) the 'note playing' part of the synth engine may get stalled - causing the performance you are observing.
I use a buffer size of 1024 for this session since it's so many VI's involved. I actually can't say how the synth performs with a lower buffer since I didn't switch to RTAS until many VI's were in session, but still...it should work just fine.

Quote:
There have been a few changes to Pro Tools since Synth One was released, and in particular in Pro Tools 8.0. There might be some new SDK features we could take advantage of, however that is not planned in our upcoming release. I can certainly put the request in the engineering queue for the next release.
I'm on 7.4, and I certainly don't expect any miracles.

Thanks for chiming in, Colin. Much appreciated.
__________________
Studio rig - Pro Tools|HDX 2018.7 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | Avid HD I/O (8x8x8) | 6-core 3.33 Westmere w/24GB RAM | OS 10.12.3 | D-Command ES | Eleven Rack | Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Mobile rig - Macbook Pro i7 w/16GB RAM | UA Apollo 8p | Pro Tools|HD 2018.3 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | OS 10.12.6
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 06-05-2010, 10:46 PM
Eric Lambert's Avatar
Eric Lambert Eric Lambert is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 4,718
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

So this is in reference to live playing.

Just about any RTAS instrument will exhibit a delay when playing live, but that should be compensated for during playback.

How about recording with the TDM version then switching to RTAS after recording is finished?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06-06-2010, 12:02 AM
Shifted Music's Avatar
Shifted Music Shifted Music is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,010
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Lambert View Post
So this is in reference to live playing.

Just about any RTAS instrument will exhibit a delay when playing live, but that should be compensated for during playback.

How about recording with the TDM version then switching to RTAS after recording is finished?
I have found the Synth one plug to be very inconsistent in RTAS.

with a fast attack percussive sound the amount of latency seems to move randomly. i did some testing a while back and every one of 5 successive recordings were in a different place. Thats plus the fact that some of the plug in settings cause my computer to crash (verified by colin as a bug in some of the settings)

I stopped using it. Pretty lame for something I paid for and I think is a great synth...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 06-06-2010, 01:01 AM
RussUK RussUK is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 3,725
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcdsp View Post
Howdy everyone,

about the response from McDSP's Synth One TDM vs. RTAS version...

I assume you are talking about when you play a note, and see the actual audio output from the synth. If I am not understanding something correctly please let me know.

For said playing response - yep, TDM is pretty darn consistent (and fast!). RTAS - not as good - acknowledged. If you are using large buffer sizes (1024, 2048, ...) the 'note playing' part of the synth engine may get stalled - causing the performance you are observing.

There have been a few changes to Pro Tools since Synth One was released, and in particular in Pro Tools 8.0. There might be some new SDK features we could take advantage of, however that is not planned in our upcoming release. I can certainly put the request in the engineering queue for the next release.

But in general, what you have observed is why there is a TDM version in the first place - low latency and little CPU hit.

Thanks for checking out McDSP plug-ins!

Colin McDowell
Whatever anyone says, I do appreciate this kind of immediate, honest and thorough response from a vendor. Thanks Colin.
__________________
I work with amazing people who do incredible things.

Founder of the Expert Sites.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06-06-2010, 03:27 AM
Stig Eliassen's Avatar
Stig Eliassen Stig Eliassen is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Norway @ Studio Varmt & Trangt
Posts: 7,455
Default Re: McDSP Synth One TDM/RTAS difference

Quote:
How about recording with the TDM version then switching to RTAS after recording is finished?
I've tried this too and it doesn't work. The RTAS version isn't usable at all for me. TDM is fine.

Quote:
with a fast attack percussive sound the amount of latency seems to move randomly. i did some testing a while back and every one of 5 successive recordings were in a different place. Thats plus the fact that some of the plug in settings cause my computer to crash (verified by colin as a bug in some of the settings)
Thanks for chiming in. That's good to know.

Quote:
Whatever anyone says, I do appreciate this kind of immediate, honest and thorough response from a vendor. Thanks Colin.
I agree 100%.
__________________
Studio rig - Pro Tools|HDX 2018.7 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | Avid HD I/O (8x8x8) | 6-core 3.33 Westmere w/24GB RAM | OS 10.12.3 | D-Command ES | Eleven Rack | Vienna Ensemble Pro 5
Mobile rig - Macbook Pro i7 w/16GB RAM | UA Apollo 8p | Pro Tools|HD 2018.3 | Logic Pro X.4.2 | OS 10.12.6
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
FS McDSP Emerald Pack V5 TDM RTAS AU AAX Raoul23 Buy & Sell 11 08-13-2012 11:11 AM
Stuck notes with McDSP Synth One HD Stig Eliassen Virtual Instruments 3 05-27-2010 09:01 AM
MCDSP Synth one crash Shifted Music Virtual Instruments 11 05-23-2009 09:44 AM
McDSP / HD RTAS vs Native RTAS tclash 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 3 10-01-2006 08:01 PM
Anyone using SynthSpider or McDSP synth one Dutchmuzik Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 8 07-05-2002 12:40 AM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 08:01 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com