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  #1  
Old 10-02-2022, 07:49 PM
lesbrunn's Avatar
lesbrunn lesbrunn is offline
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Default MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

I experienced the frozen MIDI notes issue again in 22.9. Not all the time, but it happened once when I was editing MIDI in the MIDI editor. It's related to ARA editing, and Melodyne blobs were also frozen in another session. As before, switching temporarily to sample mode enabled me to continue working smoothly in both cases.

It seems the other old issue of MIDI notes hanging after cutting clips has also reared its head again. This didn't happen in 22.7.
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  #2  
Old 10-02-2022, 09:08 PM
take77 take77 is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Hi lesbrunn,

Does it happen in a session created by a previous version or a newly created 2022.9 session?

I have one previous 2020 session that's still a complete vexation in a whole other way than it was before.
Now instead of frozen notes (which was manageable with the switch to sample mode) the first note disappears after quantizing.
Then I sometimes can't enter the note.
But that only happens if it's a separate clip (hence the first note disappearing). And only in that session so far.
So I blame it on the old session (which has all kinds of sample rounding vexations) having a framework that doesn't coincide with the new one.

When 2022.7 came out AVID did advise that problems may still exist in previous sessions.
So in order to have the experience of a full fix it may need to be a completely fresh session.

Makes sense because you have a new framework not coinciding with the previous one and vice versa.
Like a pattern template layed over another that doesn't match.

New 2022.9 sessions should be fine. Let us know.

Kind regards,

Mike
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Pro Tools Studio 2022.7|Windows 10 21H1|Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (2nd Gen)|Dell Inspiron 3650|Intel i5 6th gen|16GB RAM|Samsung T5 SSD's|Hitachi|Touro HDD

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Last edited by take77; 10-02-2022 at 10:56 PM.
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  #3  
Old 10-02-2022, 09:49 PM
ZEUSS ZEUSS is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by take77 View Post
Hi lesbrunn,

Does it happen in a session created by a previous version or a newly created 2022.9 session?

I have one previous 2020 session that's still a complete vexation in a whole other way than it was before.
Now instead of frozen notes (which was manageable with the switch to sample mode) the first note disappears after quantizing.
Then I can't enter the note.
But that only happens if it's a separate clip (hence the first note disappearing). And only in that session so far.
So I blame it on the old session (which has all kinds of sample rounding vexations) having a framework that doesn't coincide with the new one.

When 2022.7 came out AVID did advise that problems may still exist in previous sessions.
So in order to have the experience of a full fix it may need to be a completely fresh session.

Makes sense because you have a new framework not coinciding with the previous one and vice versa.
Like a pattern template layed over another that doesn't match.

New 2022.9 sessions should be fine. Let us know.

Kind regards,

Mike

Then if you import session data, and all the midi into a fresh 2022.9 session, then it should not happen according to your theory? And make new midi consolidations as well.

Truly bummed out to hear about these specific bugs still here. I get those ones all the time. And its a total vibe killer!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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  #4  
Old 10-02-2022, 10:29 PM
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lesbrunn lesbrunn is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by take77 View Post
Hi lesbrunn,

Does it happen in a session created by a previous version or a newly created 2022.9 session?

I have one previous 2020 session that's still a complete vexation in a whole other way than it was before.
Now instead of frozen notes (which was manageable with the switch to sample mode) the first note disappears after quantizing.
Then I can't enter the note.
But that only happens if it's a separate clip (hence the first note disappearing). And only in that session so far.
So I blame it on the old session (which has all kinds of sample rounding vexations) having a framework that doesn't coincide with the new one.

When 2022.7 came out AVID did advise that problems may still exist in previous sessions.
So in order to have the experience of a full fix it may need to be a completely fresh session.

Makes sense because you have a new framework not coinciding with the previous one and vice versa.
Like a pattern template layed over another that doesn't match.

New 2022.9 sessions should be fine. Let us know.

Kind regards,

Mike
Hi Mike, I haven't done any new sessions yet with 2022.9. All the many issues I had were with older sessions, such as old Melodyne plugin tracks playing totally out of sync with the rest of the music in 22.9.
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  #5  
Old 10-02-2022, 11:52 PM
take77 take77 is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Oh no! Out of sync not good at all. Hope that doesn't happen in new sessions. But many of us are still working in previous sessions.

I'm trying to do some fine tuning in the previous session I was telling you about. After opening the session in 2022.9, I get the "some clips were adjusted or deleted" pop up.
That was after doing a bunch of editing in 2022.7.

Then a bunch of subsequent bass notes are truncating. I have to slide each note over and back to get the proper note duration & sustain without cutting other notes off.
So I go to quantize as a quick fix and the first note of the clip disappears.

The bummer is this session is the one session I've done complete instrumentation for and I'm not giving up on it until it's finished.

You've probably read my past posts talking about not being able to cut & insert accurately. (Fixed since 2022.6 in new sessions only)
So I don't dare do that any more in this session.

Instead, I'm just trying to fine tune each section so I can bounce the current arrangement to audio. Then split and shuffle the audio clips on a arrangement track for the final. (Instead of cutting & inserting sections)

Don't get me wrong, I'm very grateful for the MIDI fixes (especially since paying & waiting years for them).
I know the team is working avidly to make a lot of things possible for the end user.

This session is probably the only full multi-instrumental arrangement I'll ever have time to do (mainly play guitar).
My experience creating it with Pro Tools was painstaking as it was inspiring.
I tried importing the session data as a new session but that didn't work.

Anyway, 2022.9 is here!
I just started creating a new template and will know more how things are working in future sessions.

With every good & musical wish,

Mike
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Pro Tools Studio 2022.7|Windows 10 21H1|Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (2nd Gen)|Dell Inspiron 3650|Intel i5 6th gen|16GB RAM|Samsung T5 SSD's|Hitachi|Touro HDD

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Last edited by take77; 10-15-2022 at 10:45 PM.
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  #6  
Old 10-03-2022, 09:42 AM
ZEUSS ZEUSS is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Yes! Let us know. Especially the disappearing note bug. That one is super annoying!


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  #7  
Old 10-03-2022, 03:59 PM
ZEUSS ZEUSS is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Looks like others are still having midi issues. Unbelievable. So unprofessional.


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  #8  
Old 10-03-2022, 05:01 PM
take77 take77 is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUSS View Post
Yes! Let us know. Especially the disappearing note bug. That one is super annoying!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So far it's only happened in an older session which has always had those issues.
My newer sessions created in 2022.7 & 2022.9 have been fine.

Definitely not trying to rain on the 2022.9 parade!
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  #9  
Old 10-03-2022, 05:23 PM
take77 take77 is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZEUSS View Post
Then if you import session data, and all the midi into a fresh 2022.9 session, then it should not happen according to your theory? And make new midi consolidations as well.

Truly bummed out to hear about these specific bugs still here. I get those ones all the time. And its a total vibe killer!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm thinking that the fixes won't be fully experienced unless creating a brand new session in 2022.9 and starting from scratch.

Importing previous session data into a new session might work for some issues but didn't for me when I tried importing previous data into 2022.7 which just carried over the sample rounding issue.
The MIDI bugs carry over as if they are embedded into the files.
Even after re-quantizing and consolidating things.

Update: Just imported the session into 2022.9. First note of clip still disappears after quantizing.
Previously, the session (2020) was imported into 2022.7.
While not experiencing notes disappearing, the session still had sample rounding issues after that import.

It does seem it's 2 different MIDI frameworks not coinciding. At least anything pre 2022.6 imported into the most recent versions.
However, fresh new sessions in 2022.7 & 2022.9 work great for me.
Saved 2022.7 sessions imported into 2022.9 might work to rid the frozen note bug that some are still experiencing.

When I say "framework" I mean the sample rounding calculations & grid alignment.
So a session needs to be created from scratch into the new framework to benefit fully from recent alignment fixes.
Otherwise, notes are still going to disappear (they disappear because the notes don't line up with the fixed grid).
Simply because the two framework patterns will never match.

So a person might have to roll back to whatever version worked best for THAT session and only do new sessions in 2022.9.
Which is where I am now after giving up on editing certain sessions.
I'm almost done with the problematic session & will just keep working around things until it's done.

In my case, the blame is more on past broken sessions and not so much on 2022.9.
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Pro Tools Studio 2022.7|Windows 10 21H1|Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 (2nd Gen)|Dell Inspiron 3650|Intel i5 6th gen|16GB RAM|Samsung T5 SSD's|Hitachi|Touro HDD

Toontrack EZdrummer 3|Steven Slate Drums 5.5 + Blackbird Studio EX|Spectrasonics Trilian|Native Instruments Studio Drummer|Guitar Rig 6 Pro|Hybrid Keys

Waves|SSL Native|Fabfilter|Softube|Soundtoys|Nomad Factory

Last edited by take77; 10-04-2022 at 05:39 PM.
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  #10  
Old 10-03-2022, 08:13 PM
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lesbrunn lesbrunn is offline
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Default Re: MIDI Issues Still Not Completely Fixed

Quote:
Originally Posted by take77 View Post
I'm thinking that the fixes won't be fully experienced unless creating a brand new session in 2022.9 and starting from scratch.

Importing previous session data into a new session might work for some issues but didn't for me when I tried importing previous data into 2022.7 which just carried over the sample rounding issue.
The MIDI bugs carry over as if they are embedded into the files.
Even after re-quantizing and consolidating things.

Update: Just imported the session into 2022.9. First note of clip still disappears after quantizing.
Previously, the session (2020) was imported into 2022.7.
While not experiencing notes disappearing, the session still had sample rounding issues after that import.

It does seem it's 2 different MIDI frameworks not coinciding. At least anything pre 2022.6 imported into the most recent versions.
However, fresh new sessions in 2022.7 & 2022.9 work great for me.
Saved 2022.7 sessions imported into 2022.9 might work to rid the frozen note bug that some are still experiencing.

When I say "framework" I mean the sample rounding calculations & grid alignment.
So a session needs to be created from scratch into the new framework to benefit fully from recent alignment fixes.
Otherwise, notes are still going to disappear (they disappear because the notes don't line up with the fixed grid).
Simply because the two framework patterns will never match.

So a person might have to roll back to whatever version worked best for THAT session and only do new sessions in 2022.9.
Which is where I am now after giving up on editing certain sessions.
I'm almost done with the problematic session & will just keep working around things until it's done.

In my case, the blame is more on past broken sessions and not so much on 2022.9.
I haven't had the time to do any extensive testing, but I agree with you that most of the midi issues are from older sessions. I did a few tests in a new 22.9 session, and have had zero issues so far midi-wise. This is encouraging.

But I don't understand why pre-ARA Melodyne tracks play out of sync in 22.9. This is unacceptable. Fortunately for me, I had already committed the vocal tracks in 22.7. With Avid's one step forward, two steps back development, I have found it wise to commit stuff as early as possible. I retain the original tracks and can always go back if necessary, but how do you go back if stuff is out of sync? There might be a workaround till another version solves this, but the only way forward that I see for now would be to either scrap all the previous painstaking work and redo it all in ARA, or roll back to an older version. Being a Windows user, this is problematic because I can't have more than one version installed at a time.
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