Multiple Tap Delays?

[NS3474]

Hey guys,

Is it possible to have two different "events" controlling tap times for two different plugins? For example, can I have 'F8' control the universal tempo, and 'F7' control the tap tempo for one specific plugin? That would let me set the DigiRack delays to the universal tempo, and use the tap function built into my Massey TD5 as a separate tempo without having to pull up the plugin each time.

Thanks in advance.

[Kenmillerjr]

Unfortunately no...but you can always use Snapshots to change the attributes of anything in the plug-in rack.

[Howardk]

Avid needs to add this feature as only one tap for all delays is a limitation.

Snapshots are cool for some things, but many of us FOH guys still wish to do things on-the-fly especially when refining things live.

[Roland Clarke]

Originally Posted by Howardk

Avid needs to add this feature as only one tap for all delays is a limitation.

Snapshots are cool for some things, but many of us FOH guys still wish to do things on-the-fly especially when refining things live.

I don't see how this would work, ulitmately you will tap at a tempo relative to the song, all you need are two delays with different repeat frequency as set within the plugins. As you can just about set any beat repeat within a tempo on a per plugin basis this should work.

If you need a beat repeat not related to the tempo of the song, all you would need to do is unlink that delay unit from the tap tempo and set it manually.

[dstagl]

Just curious, what are you guys doing that uses multiple tempos at the same time?

[Brent Lind]

Originally Posted by dstagl

Just curious, what are you guys doing that uses multiple tempos at the same time?

Listen to some Lee Perry and you'll get some ideas...:)

[James Drake]

You guys who use the tap button to hit the delay TIME you want, you should learn to tap the tempo of the music instead. Then understand 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes 1/16 notes, dotted notes and tripet notes etc.

There really is no situation where you would need two tempo settings at the same time. Even with complex music where different people are in different time signatures and seem to be playing against each other, there will be a common pulse and any delay time can be derived. And I really doubt this kind of music is going to have delays going on.

[Kenmillerjr]

+1 for James.

[Howardk]

Originally Posted by James Drake

You guys who use the tap button to hit the delay TIME you want, you should learn to tap the tempo of the music instead. Then understand 1/4 notes, 1/8 notes 1/16 notes, dotted notes and tripet notes etc.

There really is no situation where you would need two tempo settings at the same time. Even with complex music where different people are in different time signatures and seem to be playing against each other, there will be a common pulse and any delay time can be derived. And I really doubt this kind of music is going to have delays going on.

I must minus 1 your comment. For starters, the assumption we don't know about time signatures is incorrect, at least in my case. When mixing a band on the fly I may want a 1/8 note on the guitar with a 1/4T on the vocal for one song and the opposite on another song, or maybe I am experimenting and snapshots are not really for on-the-fly/experimenting (this is live sound which is often not pre-programmed). With old-school tap delays units in a rack or a PM5D this is a easily achievable. With the D-Show it is not, which I find to be a shortcoming.

Also keep in mind many great players can play in any time feel, but they can't chart it, just like the case where an engineer can tap out the delay they want, but it doesn't mean they have time to determine if it is a dotted 8th or a 1/4 Triplet and adjust the settings accordingly or program a snapshot for next time they feel it should happen. After all, this is live sound, which is often on-the-fly and is not to be confused with pre-conceived sound. I do agree your point has much merit in the latter but many of us don't often work in that realm, or desire more freedom to play around without rigid constraints. Basically it feels like a step backward to many of us.

There are many other areas the D-Show product could be improved to allow more freedom and ease of operation, but that is a topic for a different thread and a different day.

[James Drake]

Originally Posted by Howardk

I must minus 1 your comment. For starters, the assumption we don't know about time signatures is incorrect, at least in my case.

ok, so why exactly do you want to tap two different tempos for one song?

When mixing a band on the fly I may want a 1/8 note on the guitar with a 1/4T on the vocal for one song and the opposite on another song,

ok, so why not set up two delay lines and tap the tempo and play with the aux sends during the show?

or maybe I am experimenting and snapshots are not really for on-the-fly/experimenting (this is live sound which is often not pre-programmed). With old-school tap delays units in a rack or a PM5D this is a easily achievable. With the D-Show it is not, which I find to be a shortcoming.

if i had a rack with delays in and i had to tap the tempo on each one i'm sure this would take more time and be less consistent than having one tap button control them all!

I have not used the pm5d, but on the m7 and ls9 i have set up 4 delays with one tap tempo button to control them all which seems better to me than having to tap for each.

Also keep in mind many great players can play in any time feel, but they can't chart it, just like the case where an engineer can tap out the delay they want, but it doesn't mean they have time to determine if it is a dotted 8th or a 1/4 Triplet

If an engineer can tap the delay TIME they want but not the TEMPO of the music then this is their problem and they shouldn't blame their tools. Maybe they could take the time to learn how to feel the pulse of music?

I have learnt more about music from talking to the guys on stage in between shows and in the bar etc than i did in the 10+ years at school.

and adjust the settings accordingly or program a snapshot for next time they feel it should happen. After all, this is live sound, which is often on-the-fly and is not to be confused with pre-conceived sound. I do agree your point has much merit in the latter but many of us don't often work in that realm, or desire more freedom to play around without rigid constraints. Basically it feels like a step backward to many of us.

maybe you should just take the hour or so to organise your mixer before a show.

If i knew i had to do a bunch of delay throws and stuff during a show, maybe i could take 4 aux sends, and label them 1/16, 1/8, 1/4T, 1/4 or something. Then i can have one tap button to set the time for all these in one go at any time i like, also the feedback is all on zero because you can just send back to the same aux on the return path. And if you really want to get creative then you can send from the returns to different delay lines and eq the returns etc.

With all this i would find having four tap buttons more of a problem!