Sound Quality of DIGI 001

[michaux]

I am a new Pro Tools LE user on DIGI 001 for Mac. I have been using the product for a few months and I am not yet happy with my mixes that stay entirely in Pro Tools when I burn a CD from bounce to disk. I seem to have better results when using all 8 analogue outs to a Mackie board and mixing down to DAT or even to ADAT. I have all the best plug ins from Waves and Bomb Factory and have spent a few months learning how to use them. I would rather stay in the digital domain to mix down if possible. Any ideas? Also, I am not sure if the A/D converters in the 001 are as good as the A/D in my ADATs. Any comments? I am looking into Appogee A/Ds.

[dwdrummer]

Originally posted by michaux:
I am a new Pro Tools LE user on DIGI 001 for Mac. I have been using the product for a few months and I am not yet happy with my mixes that stay entirely in Pro Tools when I burn a CD from bounce to disk. I seem to have better results when using all 8 analogue outs to a Mackie board and mixing down to DAT or even to ADAT. I have all the best plug ins from Waves and Bomb Factory and have spent a few months learning how to use them. I would rather stay in the digital domain to mix down if possible. Any ideas? Also, I am not sure if the A/D converters in the 001 are as good as the A/D in my ADATs. Any comments? I am looking into Appogee A/Ds.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">bounce your files to 2 tracks 24 bit 48k then get yourselve a program called wavelabs 3.0 or 4.0 then master in there. your cds will sound much better if you do that. wavelabs runs in the $350-$400 range.

good luck!

[Doc]

My preferred method is to bounce to disk at 24 bit / 44.1k stereo interleaved from a 24 bit session without any dithering or sample rate conversion (my sessions for CD are always 24/44.1). Then I'll use T-Racks 24 for the 24 to 16 bit conversion and dithering.
IMHO, this method avoids any concerns about bounce to disk quality. There have been numerous tests (including my own) which prove that bouncing to disk without SRC or dither produces a file exactly the same as what you hear from the mix bus while playing a session.

There have been lengthy discussions about the pros and cons of different methods of mixing with Pro Tools recently including using analog outputs and an external summing bus.
Here's a few examples:
1.
2.
3.

There's much more if you do a search.
Hope this is helpful. [img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[Duardo]

I seem to have better results when using all 8 analogue outs to a Mackie board and mixing down to DAT or even to ADAT. I have all the best plug ins from Waves and Bomb Factory and have spent a few months learning how to use them. I would rather stay in the digital domain to mix down if possible.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it sounds better when you mix in the analog domain, why do you want to stay in the digital domain?

-Duardo

[Christoph1123]

I get some pretty fantastic results in this fashion:

24bit 44.1 PT LE session out of the 001 SPDIF, into a dbx Quantum (finalizer) which dithers it down to 16bit onto a Tascam CDRW-700 external burner. I, then, accurately monitor out from the burner via SPDIF into a Tascam TM-D1000 digital mixer then into my Event 20/20 bas speakers. The dbx Quantum sells for around $700-$800 used. No I don't work for dbx, it just made a HUGE difference in the final mixes. All in the digital domain, of course, besides the last step to the monitor speakers.

BTW- Hey Doc! How are you?

Genuinely, Chris

[michaux]

Originally posted by Christoph1123:
I get some pretty fantastic results in this fashion:

24bit 44.1 PT LE session out of the 001 SPDIF, into a dbx Quantum (finalizer) which dithers it down to 16bit onto a Tascam CDRW-700 external burner. I, then, accurately monitor out from the burner via SPDIF into a Tascam TM-D1000 digital mixer then into my Event 20/20 bas speakers. The dbx Quantum sells for around $700-$800 used. No I don't work for dbx, it just made a HUGE difference in the final mixes. All in the digital domain, of course, besides the last step to the monitor speakers.

BTW- Hey Doc! How are you?

Genuinely, Chris

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[michaux]

Thanks to all who responded to my questions! This is the first time I have used this message board and it is very helpful. Happy recording and Happy Holidays to all. web page

Michaux

Originally posted by Christoph1123:
I get some pretty fantastic results in this fashion:

24bit 44.1 PT LE session out of the 001 SPDIF, into a dbx Quantum (finalizer) which dithers it down to 16bit onto a Tascam CDRW-700 external burner. I, then, accurately monitor out from the burner via SPDIF into a Tascam TM-D1000 digital mixer then into my Event 20/20 bas speakers. The dbx Quantum sells for around $700-$800 used. No I don't work for dbx, it just made a HUGE difference in the final mixes. All in the digital domain, of course, besides the last step to the monitor speakers.

BTW- Hey Doc! How are you?

Genuinely, Chris

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

[Matt Zeiner]

One thing that may not be too obvious that you must check and re-check are your plug-in gain structures - no clipping occuring between plugs. Also, It is very easy to overload the 2buss - once you do that, you may as well be summing your signals on a Radio Shack calculator. Just take care to keep your levels down and your mixes will get better. Its quite clear to myself and also a lot of far more qualified engineers than I that the 2 buss in PT is vastly superior to most consoles - the big boys can't seem to be unanimous on whether the big SSLs are better than PT - seems like a subjective thing. I betcha if your mixes sounds better summed through your Mackie than through PT, you are overloading the PT 2buss.

[cane]

I use to have exactly the same view on this & i too started to come out of the 001 into a soundcraft ghost which i had at the time but i then started to hear other peoples mixes which were tracked through a mackie then mixed in pt & stayed in pt & their mixes had alot more level & presence + the stereo image seemed wider & more spacial.
Thing is i look at it like this - if you track through a mackie & dont do too much eq'ing inside pt then the sound is effectively the same as going from your mackie onto a cdr or dat which is the "digital domain" & i see pt as the same thing so i try & get as much of the sound mixed on the outside through the analog desk eq then once inside treat it like its a huge cd or dat player with the added bonus of editing then finish inside.
You may or may not agree with this method but if you record anything big then its gonna end up in another daw anyways so no matter what - its not gonna escape the digital domain so if its already in there then the sound really should'nt change that much through the chain but thats just my humble view there are pro's outhere who would disagree im sure.

Just my 2 pence....

Cheers
[img]images/icons/smile.gif[/img]

[naireko]

gotta chime in here with not just my opinion but my clients as well....

I recorded this CD http://www.crystalclearrecording.com/music/rudyGrant/
through my mackie 24*8 and into my digi001 using both the adat a/d converters and the digi001 converters (not much difference there).

I bussed all my outs from pro toools to my digi001 outs and my adat outs, doing overdubs, bla bla, cutting rough mixes, etc.. this method allows me to use my cues and external effects, etc.. easier.

so... we start to mix and then the client realizes i cant bring up the mix we did yesterday cause we moved on to the next song. so i say..w ell we can bring up the old mixes IF we mix on the computer.

we mix in the computer and it sounds like do g**** but the client doesnt understand why. I got into a 1 hour argument with these people cause of the difference in sound. I told them it would sound different, they didnt understand why it would sound different.

know why? cause digital is caca. the circuitry actually adds character and warmth to sound, even a clean, transparent mackie.

we went back to the old way of mixing and they were happy again. At one point I had the old mixes posted but removed them when we were done mixing so i could post the new versions. I should have kept em just for a comparison.

even using 20 bit outs from an adat into a board along with the digi001 analog outs is a huge improvement over using the internal mix bus. I can only imagine what a real d/a would sound like or even a real a/d and a good d/a.

also.... keep your levels at 0 so there is no additonal math performed on your audio when using the direct out method.