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  #41  
Old 12-03-2012, 11:23 AM
gavriil1 gavriil1 is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by John_Toolbox View Post
It really depends on your learning style, and available $$$$.

What is your ultimate goal with this knowledge?
Apologies for the long delay in reply.

I've been writing music since 14. I sing too. I play the keyboards only. However I am very technical also so learning to produce my music is my goal.

My ultimate goal is to digitize my songs. Those that I ve writted and those that I have not yet and will. I want to be my own producer first before I see what I can do with that music. I dont intend to get into the profession of working on other people's music, I dont have time for that, I have a good primary job. I am not doing it for the money.
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  #42  
Old 12-03-2012, 11:43 AM
gavriil1 gavriil1 is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by Southsidemusic View Post
In all honesty I think that Pro Tools might be the wrong DAW to start out with as you stated "starting out from the beginning" sounds to me like you need to start out with something else and leave Pro Tools land and start by using something like FL Studio, Cubase, maybe even Garageband and re-visit Pro Tools in a year or two as people here have been using PT for a long time and still have not yet got it all covered (like me) and by the way you write your questions I really would start with something more basic and easier to use for now. Look into all the tutorials there is and come back to PT when you master the basic DAW's and Plugins you want as this feels all wrong from reading your posts.

I wish you all the best and I hope you are not insulted but someone had to say it
Chris
Thanks. I disagree though. I have garage band. It's not big enough for me.

The reason I sound like I know nothing is because I stopped sequencing music since 1995 and not only lost 20 years of computer-aided-music-production, but also forgot some of the basic lingo and ways to do things.

I am the type that when I do sth I do it as well as possible.

However, what I see in the "putting music together" area, coming back after 20 years, is:

Like with anything, one has to have the BEST TOOLS before starting to implement his own original music. Meaning, I am a chef (I leave the writer part out for now), with what I want to do (produce my own original music).

A chef must have the freshest, highest quality ingredients, before anything else. No matter how much he knows about putting together food, implementing recipes (ways of processing, packaging, preparing), the food wont taste good if the ingredients are not FRESH.

The ingredients of the chef in this case, is the TOOLS I need in order to make my music sound good. That's 100% obvious even to me. And from the little I have seen coming back from that slumber, is that, a lot has happened with processing sound (e.g. elastic audio, etc), but even MORE has happened with sampling (e.g. what's happening with kontakt and the VIs in there). I mean I sampled the giant piano on kontakt and was blown away by how amazing it sounds. For the first time I had a piano sound that was AMAZING. That alone make a HUGE difference in my recipes now.

What this means:

A good chef, uses the FRESHEST ingredients in slight or small doses. That's why I want to know what the best is (so I see if I can afford it - if it's 10s of thousands maybe not, if it's less OK - back to the point:). Too much and average sounding instruments = crap. Little + amazingly sounding + put together from someone who has a good ear about making it match/packaged/prepared-to-sound-together = success.

A great example of what I am trying to say is "Alicia Key's and Nick Minaj's That girl is on fire"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7J6EGqOFNfM

I mean listen to how the guy that has produced this, has put 2 or 3 AMAZINGLY WELL SOUNDING instruments (drums of war, a piano, etc) and processed the two voices in a way that sounds amazing. Especially the voice of Nicki with the drums. Amazing!

Now that's a great chef. What I can do, is be a great chef in the matching of ingredients (sounds) for my songs. I have the ability to say, this sounds good and this does not (as much as taste in sound can be subjective). I also have the writing ability and I am not a bad singer (for a studio voice I am good.)

What I dont know is:

1, What are the best ingredients/tools to have TODAY.
2. As a secondary issue (and I can gain that knowledge once I find the right souces): studio techniques to improve vocals and backing vocals (I know the basics but when I learn more it will sound more than great). But again, that's secondary for now and I am guessing the knowledge is out there.
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  #43  
Old 12-03-2012, 11:51 AM
gavriil1 gavriil1 is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by John_Toolbox View Post
I disagree. If you want to make money at some point, you're going to need to know pro tools. Using pro tools at a basic level is not that hard, and it's not uncommon for beginners to want to dive into the deep end right away.

My suggestion to gavril, based on the assumption that you are just starting out, is to start with a minimal investment first to learn the tools. Once you buy hollywood strings (or pretty much any other sample library) you cant legally re-sell it, so I would suggest starting with a cheaper library. None of these libraries automatically create a believable score,there are a lot of skills related to arrangement, midi programming, etc. that you will need to get good at. I would suggest starting with a library like Ik multimedia's philharmonik, or ewqlso to learn the skills needed to get a believable sound. You can still get professional results from these if you know what you are doing, the main difference is they don't have as many articulations. But learn these first, because everything you do with them will be useful when you reach the point where you're ready for a more expensive library.

Appreciate the advice. However, I believe that even the best of the best, when they perform their best, that performance is not something that cannot be taught (I am talking technique not talent). It's just hidden. Naturally.

Always been that way with everything that makes money for someone. OK.

However, I want to find the best source of the best known-performance-knowledge available. Meaning of what's available out there (yes it wont be the latest maybe, that's OK, it will be more than good enough)

Usually the things that make the difference are not super complicated things. Simplicity is sophistication. Great sounding sound/music was mostly NOT complicated to make. Best tools (sounds and the guy who knew how to mix and match as one package) PLUS great talent, is what made the difference.
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  #44  
Old 12-03-2012, 11:56 AM
gavriil1 gavriil1 is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by groundcontrol View Post
Have you considered actually enrolling in some kind of media composition or recording/production program?
I have. My problem? I dont know which one would be good for me.

From what I wrote above, I am the type of person, that likes the bottom-line items. I do appreciate academia, I have been far with schools, etc but I dont want to get into a class with a borring guy talking about stuff that does not make a difference just so he sounds sophisticated. I am not anti-reading, I am not anti-small-things (small things make the difference), I am am pro-things that will better that sound, or the match-and-mix of that sounds. Who is the guy that really knows these days? Who is the bottom line guy? Who is the Steve Jobs of music chefs?
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  #45  
Old 12-03-2012, 01:17 PM
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Southsidemusic Southsidemusic is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by gavriil1 View Post
I have. My problem? I dont know which one would be good for me.

From what I wrote above, I am the type of person, that likes the bottom-line items. I do appreciate academia, I have been far with schools, etc but I dont want to get into a class with a borring guy talking about stuff that does not make a difference just so he sounds sophisticated. I am not anti-reading, I am not anti-small-things (small things make the difference), I am am pro-things that will better that sound, or the match-and-mix of that sounds. Who is the guy that really knows these days? Who is the bottom line guy? Who is the Steve Jobs of music chefs?
What I was saying is that with all these questions about this and that and the comment that you need the "best" tools to make music is BS! I realeased a song, ONE song back in 1990 that has sold over 10million singles and been in the movie The Negotiator and a few other movies and we used the crappiest mics and a 4 ch mixer used for DJ's and the cheapest [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]tiest synths available and we made a song I know EVERYONE here knows about and we didn't use the best tools by far and still made millions on that one song so in that respect you need to start with things you "know" and master before jumping into the deep end. Another thing is you say you are technical and been in music since age 14 and if so you should know more about the basics as they have nor changed that much since we made that HIT on notator and a atari that just hated to be sync'd so the ins and outs are still the same but you seem to complicate everything with disecting every answer to the bone. Music is a feeling and you cant expalain how to make good music and everyone here ha e diffrent opinions on gear and VI's and samplebanks etc so you just have to figure out this on your own and not try to break down everything as it seems to happen here. It is supposed to be alot of Fun making music and not so coplicated and technical IMHO!

Chris
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  #46  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:03 PM
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

Just curious, what's the song?
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  #47  
Old 12-03-2012, 02:43 PM
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John_Toolbox John_Toolbox is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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A chef must have the freshest, highest quality ingredients, before anything else. No matter how much he knows about putting together food, implementing recipes (ways of processing, packaging, preparing), the food wont taste good if the ingredients are not FRESH.
Not a very good analogy. In fact in this industry it's the other way around. "Putting together food" and "implementing recipes" are far more important than the actual "ingredients" used.

It's very easy to overcook things with these tools....
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If a MIDI event triggers a sample of a tree falling and there's no one there to hear it, does it make a sound?
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  #48  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:01 PM
gavriil1 gavriil1 is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by Southsidemusic View Post
What I was saying is that with all these questions about this and that and the comment that you need the "best" tools to make music is BS! I realeased a song, ONE song back in 1990 that has sold over 10million singles and been in the movie The Negotiator and a few other movies and we used the crappiest mics and a 4 ch mixer used for DJ's and the cheapest [bleep][bleep][bleep][bleep]tiest synths available and we made a song I know EVERYONE here knows about and we didn't use the best tools by far and still made millions on that one song so in that respect you need to start with things you "know" and master before jumping into the deep end. Another thing is you say you are technical and been in music since age 14 and if so you should know more about the basics as they have nor changed that much since we made that HIT on notator and a atari that just hated to be sync'd so the ins and outs are still the same but you seem to complicate everything with disecting every answer to the bone. Music is a feeling and you cant expalain how to make good music and everyone here ha e diffrent opinions on gear and VI's and samplebanks etc so you just have to figure out this on your own and not try to break down everything as it seems to happen here. It is supposed to be alot of Fun making music and not so coplicated and technical IMHO!

Chris
Chris. You're right. Give me more advice now.
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  #49  
Old 12-03-2012, 03:03 PM
gavriil1 gavriil1 is offline
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by john_toolbox View Post
not a very good analogy. In fact in this industry it's the other way around. "putting together food" and "implementing recipes" are far more important than the actual "ingredients" used.

It's very easy to overcook things with these tools.... :d
lol
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  #50  
Old 12-03-2012, 08:01 PM
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Default Re: Can this be done with PT10? (Realistic Strings)

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Originally Posted by gavriil1 View Post
Appreciate the advice. However, I believe that even the best of the best, when they perform their best, that performance is not something that cannot be taught (I am talking technique not talent). It's just hidden. Naturally.

Always been that way with everything that makes money for someone. OK.

However, I want to find the best source of the best known-performance-knowledge available. Meaning of what's available out there (yes it wont be the latest maybe, that's OK, it will be more than good enough)

Usually the things that make the difference are not super complicated things. Simplicity is sophistication. Great sounding sound/music was mostly NOT complicated to make. Best tools (sounds and the guy who knew how to mix and match as one package) PLUS great talent, is what made the difference.
There are so many things in this that I want to argue with, but I will leave it at this: "Simplicity is Sophistication" is a platitude. It might be a difficult goal that you may want to aspire to (or that you find inspiration in) but that is not the be-all, end-all, especially in terms of musical taste and or production. Knowing a little about the way pop songs are made these days, I would say that the Alicia Keys song you linked to probably used 60-80 tracks, 40 different compressors, 5000 edits, etc, etc, etc… anything but simplicity. (sorry, I'm being a little facetious there..)

To pay for my rudeness I will offer my advice about learning current music production: go to the bookstore and buy every magazine on the shelf that deals with the subject. Computer Music, Mix, Sound on Sound, Electronic Musician, EQ, there are several from the UK, etc. What I have always liked about magazines is that there is very current info mixed with basic info mixed with specialized info and even the advertisements are enlightening. Do this for a few months and you will probably have a million more questions, but they might be more pointed and specific to what you are trying to achieve.
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