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  #21  
Old 09-16-2021, 07:46 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by Eric Seaberg View Post
You are right, however, the main reason the line only has 32 channels of Dante is, in my opinion, because of Avid. You only get 32-channels of IO per DigiLink cable, so why have a device with 64-Dante when you can't get it into your HD/HDX card? Two devices with 32 each, two DigiLink cables into HDX, and you've got 64-channels.

We're using the Focusrite D64R with our SSL console, converting 64-Dante to MADI into an SSL MADI router and converted to Digilink to HDX, but it does take two DigiLink cables to get 64x64 Dante.
Not anymore. Pro Tools now supports 64 channels of I/O natively. Anyone using a Red 16 Line should email Focusrite immediately and pressure them into updating the firmware to support 64 ch of Dante, if the hardware will support it.
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  #22  
Old 09-16-2021, 08:04 AM
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

My confusion... I'm thinking only 32-channels per DigiLink cable, which has always been the case. ProTools reverts to only 32-IO without Avid hardware, which is my biggest complaint.
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Last edited by Eric Seaberg; 09-16-2021 at 08:22 AM.
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  #23  
Old 09-16-2021, 08:33 AM
its2loud its2loud is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

No confusion. You are correct on the digilink limitation. I was merely pointing out that if one were to use the Red Line 16 as a stand-alone thunderbolt interface, you can now get up to 64 channels of I/O with Pro Tools. Thus rendering the 32ch Dante limitation of that box obsolete.
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  #24  
Old 09-16-2021, 08:44 AM
Artysan Artysan is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
What exactly are you looking to do?

If you already have an HDX card, a pair of the HD32Rs will allow you to connect a Dante network to your HDX card and get all 64 channels into Protools.

Or you can use a Red interface and a single HD32R which will give you 64 Dante inputs or a combination of Dante and analog+digital I/O.
What I want is very simple to describe, almost impossible to find.

64 channels of Dante and MADI, 32 channels of analog; that all map to either/both of the following industry-standard interfaces. Pro Tools HD is my main app. But it would be foolish for me to limit myself to ONLY Pro Tools HD if I donít need to.

It is that simple. The choices are very few.

Antelope Galaxy 32.
Antelope Galaxy 64.

Thatís it. The MATRIX canít do it. A rack full of Focusrites canít do it. An open checkbook does me no good here. The industry is simply hot air and hype, while my actual needs are pretty damned simple. I want a light and small flight pack, no compromises system. Just reading the ads would make you think lots of companies make such a product. Those ads are, to be charitable, BS.
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  #25  
Old 09-16-2021, 08:59 AM
Artysan Artysan is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by JCBigler View Post
The Focusrite Red interfaces include 32x32 channels of Dante networked audio, in addition to their onboard analog and digital i/o.

For the Red 8 Pre, which I own and use, it has 8 mic preamps/line inputs, plus 8 more line level inputs, as well as two ADAT ports which can be used in SMUX mode for 8 channels at 96kHz or 16 at 48kHz, plus two more S/PDIF ports; for a total of 64x64 channels.

The 16Line include the same i/o, except that that they only have 2 mic preamps.

The Red 4Pre includes 4 mic preamps, but will only do a maximum of 58 channels, for whatever reason, as does the Red 8 Line which also only has 2 mic preamps.

It's true though, if you want to get 64 channels of Dante into your Protools HDX/HD Native system, you will need a Red Net 5 (which are fairly cheap, but becoming very hard to find these days) or an HD32R or two, or one and a Red interface.
RedNet 5 isnít going to solve my needs. Where are the MADI and analog? The RedNet 5 hogs all 64 HDX IO to itself, requiring a second HDX card and more interfaces to be able to route my IO needs to ProTools. I hope I am being clear enough here. No solution exists with Focusrite.
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  #26  
Old 09-16-2021, 10:24 AM
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by Artysan View Post
What I want is very simple to describe, almost impossible to find.

64 channels of Dante and MADI, 32 channels of analog; that all map to either/both of the following industry-standard interfaces. Pro Tools HD is my main app. But it would be foolish for me to limit myself to ONLY Pro Tools HD if I donít need to.

It is that simple. The choices are very few.

Antelope Galaxy 32.
Antelope Galaxy 64.

Thatís it. The MATRIX canít do it. A rack full of Focusrites canít do it. An open checkbook does me no good here. The industry is simply hot air and hype, while my actual needs are pretty damned simple. I want a light and small flight pack, no compromises system. Just reading the ads would make you think lots of companies make such a product. Those ads are, to be charitable, BS.
Man, you're talking about a lot of hardware capability there.

You basically want an all-in-one-do-everything-in-one-box unit. The laws of product marketing just don't work that way.

And to your point, You can get what you want with 3U of Focusrite:
Red 8Pre/16Line
HD32R
and D64R

That's 3U, costs about $500 less than the Antelope Galaxy 64. You can save more if you can find them on the refurb Focusrite Pro site.
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  #27  
Old 09-16-2021, 10:55 AM
Artysan Artysan is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by Eric Seaberg View Post
You are right, however, the main reason the line only has 32 channels of Dante is, in my opinion, because of Avid. You only get 32-channels of IO per DigiLink cable, so why have a device with 64-Dante when you can't get it into your HD/HDX card? Two devices with 32 each, two DigiLink cables into HDX, and you've got 64-channels.

We're using the Focusrite D64R with our SSL console, converting 64-Dante to MADI into an SSL MADI router and converted to Digilink to HDX, but it does take two DigiLink cables to get 64x64 Dante.
Actually, Eric, that opinion is not factual. The marketplace is just selling a lot of hot air for those of us who have large production needs. Each HDX connector is 32IO. Thatís a given and youíll notice nobody makes anything with fewer than two of them anymore. Focusrite, however, sells boxes with two HDX (64 IO) and Dante (32 IO). WHY?!?!?! What are they thinking? Adding a D64R, as they suggest, takes that MADI port to give Danteís full, NORMAL capacity. So, you now have 64 Dante into 64 HDX, with no available MADI port and a paltry 16 local analog IO. That just doesnít cut it.
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  #28  
Old 09-16-2021, 11:07 AM
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

Well we've made the D64R work in our situation as Dante isn't our normal IO but additional to 128 MADI channels, all going through an SSL MADI router that gives us flexibility. Regardless, there's lots out there to make it work.

My biggest complaint is that if we were to use, for example, and RME 128 or 192 channel MADI or Dante IO card in the MacPro, ProTools would limit us to 32-IO because we don't have any of their hardware. I understand they are in the hardware business, but I'd pay for a premium software license to open that up. I don't need their hardware in many of our rooms.
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  #29  
Old 09-16-2021, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

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Originally Posted by Eric Seaberg View Post
My biggest complaint is that if we were to use, for example, and RME 128 or 192 channel MADI or Dante IO card in the MacPro, ProTools would limit us to 32-IO because we don't have any of their hardware. I understand they are in the hardware business, but I'd pay for a premium software license to open that up. I don't need their hardware in many of our rooms.
Protools now offers up to 64 channels of I/O, as of 2021.5(?), Without needing Avid hardware. To go above 64 channels now, of course you need an HDX card.
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  #30  
Old 09-16-2021, 11:30 AM
Artysan Artysan is offline
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Default Re: HDX with Dante Via

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric Seaberg View Post
Well we've made the D64R work in our situation as Dante isn't our normal IO but additional to 128 MADI channels, all going through an SSL MADI router that gives us flexibility. Regardless, there's lots out there to make it work.

My biggest complaint is that if we were to use, for example, and RME 128 or 192 channel MADI or Dante IO card in the MacPro, ProTools would limit us to 32-IO because we don't have any of their hardware. I understand they are in the hardware business, but I'd pay for a premium software license to open that up. I don't need their hardware in many of our rooms.
Few know that Core Audio has 256 IO capability built right in by Apple. I believe RME uses 128 IO, or maybe even more. Avid is the biggest impediment to the success of Pro Tools users. Ironic, huh?

Iím sorry to be finicky, but there is not ďlots out there to make it workĒ. My work includes major awards shows and live music television. Dante is my chosen stage IO. MADI is standard procedure for touring consoles and TV trucks, and 32 IO of analog is just about right for the 5.1 monitors plus 8-10 stereo/mono stems I am always asked for.

All of those formats need to have access to 64HDX IO for me to do my shows. Note, Iím not asking for 160 simultaneous IO, but some combination of 64 total, simultaneously assignable to HDX, split among the formats of Dante, MADI, and 32 available analog IO.

A MATRIX configured that way is about $30k, too much for my bank, AND still does not have TB/USB3 capability if I choose to work with another DAW. Iím not daydreaming, this is what I need and it must be small and light to make $ sense. My current HD system does this, but weighs 1800lbs and costs me $1500 per day just for crew and cartage, and thatís a dealbreaker.

If you have lots of spare time, you can look for an alternative solution. Iíve put a couple hundred hours into it. Many will drop the $30K on MATRIX and have no alternate DAW choice. That seems extreme to me.
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