Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Pro Tools Post Production > Post - Surround - Video

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-09-2004, 10:52 PM
gw sound gw sound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 123
Default changing a stereo mix into 5.1

I have completed a stereo mix for a live rock show/video and have been informed that their management wants it done in 5.1. I have been mixing for a few years now, but never in surround. I have a deadline slowly creeping up, but have been too busy to investigate 5.1 enough to jump right in. Any advice/information would be greatly appreciated. I am using 6.4 PTHD. I have also skimmed through the book and played with changing my i/o prefferences over in the session, but I am definately missing an other step. One last question- I read somewhere that some producers don't even assign any audio to the sub because most theater systems assign it themselves. Does this mean I can take the sub out of the equation?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-10-2004, 02:31 PM
Serge Perron Serge Perron is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: LA
Posts: 151
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

You will get better results if you start the mix from scratch in 5.1 from the tracks rather than upmixing the 5.1 from your stereo mix. If you're pressed for time or you must do the latter, try passing your stereo mix thru the Dolby Surround Tools decoder plug in (you can downlaod the demo) and listen to what comes out. The output will be LCRS. You can enhance those outputs as necessary. The surround output will be mono, so you will need to stereoize it through eq, reverb, delay, etc. You may find that the resulting surround output sounds anemic You are not forced to use it. You can derive a stereo surround from the original stereo mix. It will probably need at least 15 ms delay, depending on content, and you can further process it however you want.

If you still have access to the original multitracks, you can blend some of it, such as applause or individual instruments, back into the derived 5.1 surrounds. Watch out for phasing sounds.

I haven't had a chance to play with a Pro Logic II decoder, but that may yield good results as well.

Most home theater setups incorporate bass management for DVD playback, meaning that the low frequencies from the LCRLsRs) are added to the Sub channel and sent to the subwoofer, while the main channels are high-passed. I'm not sure if bass management is consistently incorporated in theaters.

Make sure that your monitoring environment is in order. Browse the surround room monitor calibration forum.

sgp
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-10-2004, 03:27 PM
Pirate Post Pirate Post is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Studio City, CA USA
Posts: 639
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

Quote:
If you're pressed for time or you must do the latter, try passing your stereo mix thru the Dolby Surround Tools decoder plug in (you can downlaod the demo) and listen to what comes out. The output will be LCRS. You can enhance those outputs as necessary. The surround output will be mono, so you will need to stereoize it through eq, reverb, delay, etc. You may find that the resulting surround output sounds anemic You are not forced to use it. You can derive a stereo surround from the original stereo mix. It will probably need at least 15 ms delay, depending on content, and you can further process it however you want.

If your going to try this route, go rent an SRS Decoder. It has a special mode on it to extract 6.1 from Stereo. Call SRS and speak with Mike Canevaro. I've had better results than the Dolby decoder.
__________________
Peter Cole - Head Pirate
http://www.beforenoonpost.com
http://www.piratepost.net
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-10-2004, 06:46 PM
TVPostSound's Avatar
TVPostSound TVPostSound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 3,306
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

Il second the "head Pirate" with the SRS.
A TC Electronics 6000 also works well as an alternative to a remix.
Ive used one quite a bit to make "5.1" shows from stereo since networks want that for syndicated shows on their HD channels.
__________________
IMDB
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-10-2004, 08:02 PM
bananahill bananahill is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Hollywood, CA
Posts: 5
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

I will disagree with the previous posts. do not scrap your stereo mix, it probably contains some valuable automation.
Instead select all channels and change the output to your 5.1. This will copy all panning to the front of the surround matrix.
For an LCR mix you're most of the way there. Because you're in PT 6.4 you have arguably the most powerful surround software available. Now just have fun. I have to assume you have proper surround monitoring, (I can't get into that because this is a digi forum.)
If you are using delays, try moving them to the rear. Try duplicating your reverbs (plug in) and sending it to the rear. If you do this make it a little darker and longer. If it is a hardware reverb, then send it to a stereo delay panned to the rear. You said rock so send some guitar efx to the rear. If it is live, then of course put a lot of audience in the surrounds. Just pan things so they sound good. It's just like stereo panning, only bigger.

Since this is for video, you can't make people turn around to see what's behind them, but that is about the only rule.

Use the software and have fun. You may never go back to stereo.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 09-11-2004, 05:47 AM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,861
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

I would not use any decoder to extract a "surround" mix from a stereo mix if I didn't have to. There can be severe steering problems, altered surround frequency response from the surrounds, unusual balances between front and rear, and with many decoders (Dolby PL and PLII) a delay is automatically added to the surround channels. You can always compensate for the delay, by delaying all the other channels, but the other problems still exist. I have the TC6000 software, also, and that can be touchy too. The more you smear the center channel into left/right, the more stable the image gets. In other words, the closer you make the surround mix to stereo, the better it gets! I have not used SRS, but I would be surprised if it did not have similar problems. None of the methods I have tried will fold down into stereo that sounds just like your original mix.

Those options are best used if you have absolutely no other choice. In your case, you have the Pro Tools sessions. Take the advice to start with your stereo mixes and alter the panning. You will have great success with not very much extra work. The sub is best ignored unless you are prepared to LOSE whatever is assigned to it (which is what happens with many home decoders when your surround mix is downmixed automatically to stereo). The LFE channel merely augments your mix, it should not handle the critical bass. It was primarily designed for sound effects rumbles and the like.

Of course, you must have properly set up surround monitoring with any of these methods. I highly recommend that you do some more thorough research.
__________________
Call me by my real name, "Postman"
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-13-2004, 05:17 AM
georgia georgia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: NY,NY
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

actually the tc6000 works very well. it lets you select surround delays, amount of rear, center, and LR processing, equalization on various channels... etc etc.. We normally use this as step one when we create 5.1 mixes from stereo for clients. ( broadcast, dvd, film ). THen depending on the end deliverable requirements we manipulate the 5.1 files in a number of ways to complete a 5.1 or 6.1 mix that is really a 5.1 and not just an opened up 5.1 mix. Its a bit time consuming to list out here, but if you want to chat about it, feel free to call.
We just did this over the weekend, as a matter of fact, for GIANT ROBO a 100 minute animated film that is going to DVD, and therefore needed to be 5.1 from old stereo M&Es.

cheers
georgia
__________________
georgia hilton CAS MPSE MPE

Hilton Media Management

Film Doctors http://www.filmdoctors.com
Me... http://georgiahilton.webs.com/
Stage 32 http://www.stage32.com/profile/6569/georgia-hilton
My Production Company http://www.hiltonmm.com

CREDITS (partial) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0385255/resume
MEMBER: IATSE LOCAL 700
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 09-13-2004, 05:49 AM
Richard Fairbanks Richard Fairbanks is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 1969
Location: New York, NY
Posts: 1,861
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

Quote:
actually the tc6000 works very well.
I didn't say it didn't, I said it is touchy. You surely know what I mean. It is not a set once and forget device, if you want the best results. I did not mean to offend you. I own the TC, I own Unwrap, I haved used it, and if I only had a stereo mix to work from I would start with it. BUT, if I had the Pro Tools session I would start with that to make a project even better. It is going to be time spent either way, so my vote is for better results.
__________________
Call me by my real name, "Postman"
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-17-2004, 12:27 AM
gw sound gw sound is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Posts: 123
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

Thank you all for your posts. I have also read alot of material, and am well on my way. I'm actually having alot more fun than I thought I would! I am still a little worried about the correct level for the lfe, but I'm sure it will pan out. Thanks again-
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 09-17-2004, 07:52 AM
georgia georgia is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: NY,NY
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: changing a stereo mix into 5.1

hey Richard!

no offense taken... In fact I know exactly what you're talking about.. The 6000 is a great tool but one that requies care and time to learn.

cheers
georgia
__________________
georgia hilton CAS MPSE MPE

Hilton Media Management

Film Doctors http://www.filmdoctors.com
Me... http://georgiahilton.webs.com/
Stage 32 http://www.stage32.com/profile/6569/georgia-hilton
My Production Company http://www.hiltonmm.com

CREDITS (partial) http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0385255/resume
MEMBER: IATSE LOCAL 700
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Changing note values while changing meter - I'm stumped jrmintz Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 4 10-30-2011 03:55 AM
Changing the pitch of a stereo track Monty_python 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 7 03-13-2009 08:10 AM
changing a stereo to surround mix. ruffmixmusic Post - Surround - Video 2 12-13-2006 05:04 PM
Changing stereo into mono Snafu 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Win) 5 02-26-2006 07:08 PM
Outboard FX changing? while recording to stereo .. edorlando 003, Mbox 2, Digi 002, original Mbox, Digi 001 (Mac) 1 03-22-2004 06:03 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:11 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com