HW insert Delay Compensation strange behavior on Pro Tools Ultimate

[Batpro]

Hello there,
2 Issues that I can't solve:
1)
I try to check out how many m.sec of delay have my hardware.
So I've recorded some tracks routing another track with insert ad described in a PT tutorial.
My 500 modules with a Cranborne ADAT seems to have 3.8m.sec of delay.
Ok. In the I/O window I have compensated this value.
The recorded track is now perfectly on time. If I use only one insert.
If I use two inserts , ex.a compressor and an EQ the track loses his alignment.
But it's not all. If a restart the Mac I have some different values.
Now,for example, with no delay comp in the I/O window I see the track ahead by 18 samples.

2)
I have a reverb via AES, converted in Spdif with a Mutec.
If I insert this I/O in a track (kill wet, dry only) to determine the delay I see that
the recorded track is...ahead by 9 m.sec. a lot!. This is audible and bothersome.
Since the delay compensation don't work for negative values. I can compensate in the track but I'm afraid there is something wrong.

Pro Tools ultimate, last release, Mac Studio M1, Monterey. Apollo X6-X8-X16 with his own delay compensation OFF. Cranborne ADAT, Dangerous Convert 2+ as Wordclock master.
The tracks with the plugins (both native and UAD) are perfectly aligned.
The issue arises only with the Hardware insert function.

Any help is very welcome. Thanks! Cheers

[Dax Productions]

HW insert delay is a bit of a mess. Some users report that it works as intended, others (myself included) find it to be impossible to reliably setup.

I have the same experience as you... Delay times seem to be a moving target, negative delay times which obviously you cannot compensate for... its a disaster.

Honestly, the best workaround I've found, - and you aren't going to like this - is that if you want to use outboard gear in parallel with audio (like backbuss compression for instance) you'll need a summing device of some sort. Be it a dedicated summing mixer, a small mixer wither enough channels for the amount of parallel gear you want to use, etc.

[Batpro]

Originally Posted by Dax Productions

HW insert delay is a bit of a mess. Some users report that it works as intended, others (myself included) find it to be impossible to reliably setup.

I have the same experience as you... Delay times seem to be a moving target, negative delay times which obviously you cannot compensate for... its a disaster.

Honestly, the best workaround I've found, - and you aren't going to like this - is that if you want to use outboard gear in parallel with audio (like backbuss compression for instance) you'll need a summing device of some sort. Be it a dedicated summing mixer, a small mixer wither enough channels for the amount of parallel gear you want to use, etc.

Thanks. Just knowing that I'm not alone in this drama is a consolation!
You mean going in insert in a summing mixer? Could be a good idea, I've a 5059 that I could exploit for this use.
The HW insert delay compensated must not be a simple thing. LUNA has avoided implementing this feature for years. It would be so convenient ...

[Dax Productions]

So, if you want to send audio to an outboard compressor, say.

Instead of setting up an aux in protools and using a hardware insert on that aux, just send to a physical output on your interface that patches to your compressor, and then the compressor goes to an input on your summing mixer. Also have your main mix buss output to the summing mixer and then have the summing mixer output come back into protools on a print track.

An expensive workaround that takes you much more out of the box than you may have liked, but it will work!

[Dax Productions]

Also, many daws have a "ping" feature that calculates the delay for you. The idea of the end user manually measuring and entering the delay time in 2022 is honestly pretty absurd.

[killah_trakz]

I’m in the same apollo / cranborne boat.

Protools has no PING feature. Use another daw. It’s what I had to do.


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[BScout]

When doing the timing calibration (measuring delay), do you have LLM on or off in Pro Tools?
When you are using the hardware insert, do you have LLM on or off?

[killah_trakz]

Originally Posted by BScout

When doing the timing calibration (measuring delay), do you have LLM on or off in Pro Tools?
When you are using the hardware insert, do you have LLM on or off?

LLM is off.

Protools doesn’t accept negative delay numbers so it won’t work.

All the other daws with ping works just fine.

I just keep my studio perpetual tucked in the side and let my ultimate sub end in June.


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[Led]

Yes, for many years I have found the lack of ping disturbing.
Cubase had it sooooo many years ago

[killah_trakz]

Originally Posted by Led

Yes, for many years I have found the lack of ping disturbing.
Cubase had it sooooo many years ago

Exactly. They should have already included it when 9 was out in the wild…..


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