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  #1  
Old 03-26-2021, 03:52 PM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
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Default Reels!

Ok I'm going to have a moan here and I'd be interested in other people's views.

Reels!

Back when a Film was made of that transparent stuff that ran over sprockets in front of a big light, it was only practical to have around 20 mins of it spooled up on one spindle, or the spools got unmanageable- fair enough.

It's now been some considerable time since I've made a 'Film' which has actually ended up on celluloid, I think the last one was in 2012.

Why are people persisting in asking for Films, which are now in reality expensive, high production value super videos, designed to be appreciated in a cinema environment, (nothing wrong with all that), to be delivered in reels?

The digital revolution has happened and it's good IMHO. There are TV shows that have the same budgets and production values as Films and nobody asks for them to be delivered in reels, because it's never been TV working practice to do that. Of course I speak from a UK perspective, where we still have a national broadcaster that doesn't show adverts.

It's been some time now that Pro Tools has easily been able to cope with a 'super session', with the film running continuously, as it's meant to be viewed, even for a complicated FX heavy mix. If it gets too much it can be spread across multiple rigs, no need to chop it into lumps.

Sorry for the rant, but I thought we would move forward with the new technology and I've been mixing films without reels for years now.
However the last 3 films I've delivered the distributors have asked for them to be in reels, which has meant chopping the film at arbitrary points to create them and then all the pain of making the multiple deliverables, with the considerable amount of work involved in creating the chunks, labelling them etc etc and don't even get me on to asking for overlaps in this day and age.

Anyhow, I'd be interested to hear how others feel about it.
Maybe you can give me some reason to learn to love reels?
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  #2  
Old 03-26-2021, 04:00 PM
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dr sound dr sound is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

I prefer reels..
The reason, most Films are in flux. The powers to be are always changing picture, VFX, cutting the duration etc.
If you are on Reel 1 mixing they can change and conform Reel 3 etc in the background as we still are working .
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2021, 04:53 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

Love reels. Same reason as Dr. Sound. It's so other departments can be working on a reel and you only have to swap out sections at a time.

Also, files are much smaller. Especially if you ask for the AAF of a reel vs a Long Play/Full Length.

In naming conventions, too, it's easier to track. If I have a 7 reel picture and I start referring to a reel 5 cue (like 5m36), everyone knows approximately how far we are into the movie or what Act we're in (quickly.)
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Old 03-26-2021, 06:12 PM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

Thanks for the replies.


Personally I don't mind re-conforming a whole film at once, or receiving a new full AAF.
If you want to split the film between collaborators, you could just say, work on it from 01:30:00:00 to 02:00:00:00 or whatever, I've done that before.


I appreciate that you find reels beneficial for your workflows in post, but can you see any reason to chop a film into reels that has been completed as a continuous piece?
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  #5  
Old 03-26-2021, 07:53 PM
Leverson Leverson is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

I'm a fan of working in longplays and super sessions personally. Unless the film edit is in constant flux in which case breaking it into reels or acts makes sense for reconforming purposes. But even for those we'll merge together into a longplay for the final mix passes.

When I do have to work in reels though, it's still all in a super session, with each reel placed at the hour marks, so it's not that big of a change of pace workflow wise. (Although I do hate having to work around reel breaks though!).

As for the distributors, it's been quite a long time since I've had to deliver anything in reels. Every once in a while I'll get a delivery spec asking for it, but every time we call and have a deliverables chat over the phone that gets nixed for a longplay instead.
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Old 03-26-2021, 10:22 PM
BScout BScout is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
If you want to split the film between collaborators, you could just say, work on it from 01:30:00:00 to 02:00:00:00 or whatever, I've done that before.
I just came off a picture where the picture editor did this. The editor didn't grasp how doing internal edits on length shifts everything after and it was a moving target for sound. Constantly having to figure out where things were placed _now_ was a massive annoyance. This was on a film. Never again.

On tv episodes, this does not bother me. But it is also a much faster turn-around so less tinkering.
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  #7  
Old 03-27-2021, 11:21 AM
Frank Kruse Frank Kruse is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dr sound View Post
I prefer reels..
The reason, most Films are in flux. The powers to be are always changing picture, VFX, cutting the duration etc.
If you are on Reel 1 mixing they can change and conform Reel 3 etc in the background as we still are working .
This!

Projects that don't come in reels are an absolute PITA to work on in teams. Not so much when you're a one-person-band working on it but not having reels on a complex film with a bigger team is almost impossible and a perfect concept for chaos and miscommunication.

"hey sound team, we're going to send you the whole 120GB of DNxHD115 QT because we swapped out a 2 second shot at 5minutes" is just one example.

Reels are key to getting stuff done and organise team work. That said, I still have all reels in one session but just because PT is this "open reel machine" simulator that doesn't know how to handle sequences etc.

Frank.
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Old 03-28-2021, 05:34 AM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

Interesting stuff, thanks.



Perhaps it's because I don't tend to work in large teams, usually just 2 or 3 people working on the film, that I find reels annoying.
If re-cuts come through we just park it until someone's work is finished and then re-conform.
If we need updated picture I send an mp4 and they convert their end.

Anyway those things are workflow preferences for different scenarios of film making and we all do it slightly differently.



Quote:
As for the distributors, it's been quite a long time since I've had to deliver anything in reels. Every once in a while I'll get a delivery spec asking for it, but every time we call and have a deliverables chat over the phone that gets nixed for a longplay instead.

This is partly what I'm trying to find out. I was going along fine delivering longplay on all films and deliverables and then recently 3 in a row where they've specified reels even though the film was created longplay, there was no talking them out of it either.


Does something else factor in down the line?
I've heard rumours about grading and lack of capacity for full films, even subtitles were mentioned once as an issue?


The bottom line is, because most of the films I do are low to medium budget, I often have to make all the deliverables myself and this is where reels become a major PITA. Especially if they ask for reels and continuous and files as interleaved and multiple mono in 3 different framerates, which I've also seen recently.


Any thoughts?
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  #9  
Old 03-28-2021, 09:28 AM
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Default Re: Reels!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesehead View Post
Interesting stuff, thanks.

The bottom line is, because most of the films I do are low to medium budget, I often have to make all the deliverables myself and this is where reels become a major PITA. Especially if they ask for reels and continuous and files as interleaved and multiple mono in 3 different framerates, which I've also seen recently.

Any thoughts?
Distributors always ask for Reels to create their DCP's.
They also ask for interleaved and mult monos.

We end up giving them BOTH Reels and continuous in 23.98
and 24 Frame and occasionally 25 frame.
When it comes to sound you need to do it all yourself or otherwise
be guaranteed that someone else down the line will mess it up.
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  #10  
Old 03-29-2021, 05:18 AM
Cheesehead Cheesehead is offline
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Default Re: Reels!

They don't absolutely need reels to create DCP's though.
You can use a continuous sound file just as well, if you're using a continuous
picture surely?
Although I'm not a DCP software officionado.


Quote:
When it comes to sound you need to do it all yourself or otherwise
be guaranteed that someone else down the line will mess it up.
Ha ha! That is so true, I need to keep that in mind more.
However, they'll probably manage to screw it up anyway at some point,
but at least it was ok leaving me.
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