Neumann RSM 191 for post

[meathman]

Ive heard that the Neumann rsm 191 is somewhat of a standard for fx recording for post. The odd thing is, I cant seem to find many reviews or info online. Also for about $5,000 is it that much better soundwise than say a schoeps ms pair or a sanken css5 for example?

Any info would be appreciated...Thanks

[rhumphries]

It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish. Are you trying to get the most bang for the buck; the quietest rig; the most (subjectively) pleasant sound?

I've used all of the rigs you have mentioned, and they all get the job done well. The Sennheiser MKH's are the quietest and the least susceptible to moisture problems. The RSM 191 and the Sanken css5 are both convenient in that they are single mics with multiple elements-- though the 191 is M/S and the CSS5 is not. Schoeps just sound great, but they do suffer from noise problems if you don't keep them clean.

If I was starting from scratch and had $5000 to spend, I'd personally probably buy several different MKHs or Schoeps to cover more applications. If I already had a nice selection of mics, and had $5000 to burn, I'd still consider the RSM 191 because it is a nice mic, or perhaps I'd spend the money on a flight to an interesting place to record.

-Richard

[meathman]

Thanks for that info. I have easy access to the css5 schoeps and MHK 30/40 for MS. I was just wondering how the 191 stacks up soundwise. The css5 is a bit noisy for certain applications and the schoeps are not as rugged. Im assuming the rsm cannot sound much better than say a schoeps m/s pair ? Anyway- good point, Ill probably use that money on a flight to a good place to record.

[rhumphries]

Thanks for that info. I have easy access to the css5 schoeps and MHK 30/40 for MS. I was just wondering how the 191 stacks up soundwise. The css5 is a bit noisy for certain applications and the schoeps are not as rugged. Im assuming the rsm cannot sound much better than say a schoeps m/s pair ? Anyway- good point, Ill probably use that money on a flight to a good place to record.

The 191 does sound nice, but describing it as better or worse than a Schoeps would just be a matter of personal opinion. I have never listened back to a recording I have made with another rig and said "Darn! I wish I had recorded that with a 191 instead of a _____."


-Richard

[lecreak]

I own both the css5 and the older version of the 191 and they both do certain things well. The 191 is quieter and has a warmer sound, the css5 is really good for high spl applications because it does not distort. However, the Css5 is a little noisy for subtle backgrounds. The Schoeps are great but for field recording I find them a little too sensitive to handling and they distort on extremely loud sounds. Two options that you havent mentioned are the Dpas and the m/s equivalent of Schoeps system by Neumann. I think you can get the modular Neumann setup for around 2k, I have not priced the dpas but they are a little pricey. I think the reason most people favor the 191 is because of it's versitality and 'film' sound. It has a warmth that translates well to film soundtracks and it is quiet enough to do backgrounds but can handle high spls as well. You can get the 191 for less than 5k- call up location sound, or coffey sound and ask their best price. good luck recording-

[meathman]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like the RSM is a good mic. For field recording, it seems like the extra matrix amplifier that comes with it might be a bit of a pain (an extra unit to carry, and hard to find cables) also, ive heard the rsm , like the schoeps do not fare well in humid and damp situations.

I have a rycote connbox i use with my schoeps, and that helps with the handling noise - also, the shoeops do distort at extreme spl's but the max spl spec for the neumanns and dps are only a few dd higher.... it is that much of a difference.

Considering you have both the neumann and the sanken, which would you recommend as a better all around -sounding- stereo shotgun for use in most applications

Thanks again

[subwoof]

Hi Meathman

I own and use the Neumann RSM 191i, and have used it since 1990 (18 years!) It is a great sounding mic. I have also use the Sanken, but not the Scheops unfortunately. Comparing the Neumann to the Sanken is purely subjective of course, but I think the difference to me is the Neumann sounds perhaps "warmer", like a nice German mic, as compared to the Sanken which sounds great but has a slightly brighter sound to it. I have not had humidity problems with it, but it is a bit on the heavy side, and the M/S box is a bit of a pain to lug around all the time. The Neumann is a sweet sounding mic though.

The other advantage is recording in M/S is a great option to have. It gives you absolute mono compatibility with the front facing hyper-cardiod element, and allows you to vary the stereo width later on in post production when you mix in the figure-8 capsule. Unless you are recording backgound ambience's, most of the time you will end up wanting mono FX anyway, so M/S is the way to go.

I use it with a Rycote blimp system and a windjammer on a Sound Devices 722 (and sometimes a Nagra 4s). Works great.

Mike

[meathman]

thanks again for the info.

one quick question. can you easily get a shorter or longer length cable made. How does it work neumann cable to the matrix, then 2 times XLR out of that? is the cable situation a pain?

Also any comparison to the sennheiser MKH series?

And finally someone mentioned the sanken as able to handle higher spl, although according to the spec online the neumann can handle higher spl.....any thoughts?

Thanks again

[lecreak]

Thanks for the info. Sounds like the RSM is a good mic. For field recording, it seems like the extra matrix amplifier that comes with it might be a bit of a pain (an extra unit to carry, and hard to find cables) also, ive heard the rsm , like the schoeps do not fare well in humid and damp situations.

I have a rycote connbox i use with my schoeps, and that helps with the handling noise - also, the shoeops do distort at extreme spl's but the max spl spec for the neumanns and dps are only a few dd higher.... it is that much of a difference.

Considering you have both the neumann and the sanken, which would you recommend as a better all around -sounding- stereo shotgun for use in most applications

Thanks again

I would say the Neumann is a better choice even if it is more of a pain because of the matrix box. Humid and damp conditions are probably not good for any condensers I would imagine but there are many field recordists that use the Neumann in extreme conditions and they seem to survive. The distortion listed is probably more of a variable based on the type of sound and the mic pres/power supply that your using. I just bought a Grace Lunatec v3 to help me get more headroom and hopefully a cleaner sound than I have on the Fr2. Just comparing some car recordings I shot with the two mics the Sanken almost never distorted, almost compressing the sound at the very top but never crapping out. The Sennheisers are good too, but until recently they didnt have a stereo shotgun, and I don't know too many people who have used their stereo mic. A cheap alternative would be to buy two Neumann Km184 modules and put them on an X-y bar for stereo recording. The only problem there is the wind protection and a more bulky setup than the rycote. Both are good choices- but if you have the money or can find a good deal on the 191 I would get that- gl