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  #11  
Old 07-20-2021, 03:36 PM
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Bob Olhsson Bob Olhsson is offline
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

I aim at -10 with the classic PT metering. Unlike analog, the error is having the levels too high as opposed to too low which was the classic problem with tape.

It took me a few years to get that notion through my head. What finally brought it home was a friend who was having trouble getting his levels up using his new 001. His mixes that were peaking at -40 sounded way better than my clients who had mixed on an SSL with all high-end gear.
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  #12  
Old 07-21-2021, 07:04 AM
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

24bit, 44.1. Don't record too loud.. Make music. Don't worry about it.


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  #13  
Old 07-21-2021, 12:30 PM
noobstudioguy noobstudioguy is offline
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkJE View Post
And for Editing - record at 32-bit float for the joy of Clip Gain

Bounce/print to whatever’s required



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I couldn't help myself and kept on reading up on this subject. Making way more sense now.

I think I have one final question. For the joy of clip gain, what did you mean by this? I am familiar with clip gain (the basic clip gain function in every daw which is used for gain staging / turning down audio PRE fader) but how would that be an advantage when tracking?
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  #14  
Old 07-21-2021, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobstudioguy View Post
… I think I have one final question. For the joy of clip gain, what did you mean by this? I am familiar with clip gain (the basic clip gain function in every daw which is used for gain staging / turning down audio PRE fader) but how would that be an advantage when tracking?
I was talking about Editing, not Tracking:
Quote:
Originally Posted by unkJE View Post
And for Editing - record at 32-bit float for the joy of Clip Gain
I guess the joy started with Pro Tools 10 HD’s ability to convert clip gain to volume automation – but the day-to-day joy (when Editing) is zooming in and adding Clip Gain breakpoints on either side of a Transient (or a selection) – then using the ensuing Fader to either lower or raise the volume – create Crossfades, then consolidating … making adjustments so easy and quick!

See:
Pro Tools Shortcuts p.21 - Chapter 5 - Edit Window and Mix Window Keyboard Shortcuts – Clip Gain


Clip Gain Line & Clip Gain Info

https://www.protoolstraining.com/blo...pro-tools.html

Pro Tools® 10 ‒ Clip Gain Overview ‒ Avid
https://youtu.be/B9VEK3LcDZg

Crossfades:
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...-in-pro-tools/
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Last edited by unkJE; 07-21-2021 at 06:32 PM. Reason: Clip Gain Shortcuts added
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  #15  
Old 07-22-2021, 01:57 AM
noobstudioguy noobstudioguy is offline
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by unkJE View Post
I was talking about Editing, not Tracking:


I guess the joy started with Pro Tools 10 HD’s ability to convert clip gain to volume automation – but the day-to-day joy (when Editing) is zooming in and adding Clip Gain breakpoints on either side of a Transient (or a selection) – then using the ensuing Fader to either lower or raise the volume – create Crossfades, then consolidating … making adjustments so easy and quick!

See:
Pro Tools Shortcuts p.21 - Chapter 5 - Edit Window and Mix Window Keyboard Shortcuts – Clip Gain


Clip Gain Line & Clip Gain Info

https://www.protoolstraining.com/blo...pro-tools.html

Pro Tools® 10 ‒ Clip Gain Overview ‒ Avid
https://youtu.be/B9VEK3LcDZg

Crossfades:
https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare...-in-pro-tools/

Gotcha, but how is clip gain better with 32 bit float?
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  #16  
Old 07-22-2021, 09:27 AM
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

<<Why is 32-bit better for clip gain?>>

32-bit 'float' is better because it has the ability to represent up to 1528 dB of Amplitude – way more than needed (earth's limit is around 210 dB from a 'blast wave')

So if a file clips (due to your input level to the 32-bit A to D) on tracking, you can actually 'pull it down with clip gain/AudioSuite' and eliminate the distortion.

And as Bob and JFreak mentioned above:
32 won't be able to remove distortion from your analog chain
32 won't be able to remove distortion from an overloaded 24-bit converter
32 will be better for 'file based processing' and 'printing out' Virtual Instruments

Here is a good explaination:
https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-...les-explained/
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Last edited by blackmacdaddy; 07-22-2021 at 09:33 AM. Reason: clarity
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  #17  
Old 07-22-2021, 10:32 AM
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albee1952 albee1952 is offline
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

My 2 cents worth:
1-I record at 24 bit/48K. Why 48? It pushes the high frequency limit a bit higher, which also pushes the phase shift of the filter higher. Not saying I can hear the frequency difference, but the reduced phase shift makes the top end just nicer(certainly a subjective comment).

2-Re levels, Bob's suggestion to take -10 as the new "zero" makes a lot of sense. When I got started in PT(version 6), I made 2 mistakes early on; I recorded things too hot, and I rarely used a Master track(I figured since it was going out to be mastered, why should I use one). Needless to say, my early mixes sounded a bit crunchy. As soon as I added a Master track, that clipping was easily seen and corrected.

3-Since I'm a creature of habit(including some bad ones), my fix for tracks which are too hot was(still is) to insert the TRIM plugin in the last slot of all audio and instrument tracks, set to -8 and all in bypass while tracking. When I get to the mixing stage, I enable all the trim plugins with a single command(some trim plugins will be edited or bypassed as a mix progresses). That makes the entire mix drop in level, but keeps the relative mix intact so I'm not starting from scratch. Some are probably wondering why trim goes in the last slot instead of the first and the answer is simple. Putting it first will change how every other plugin on a track is driven. Putting it last changes nothing but the final volume. Also, if I need to raise or lower a track that has lots of automation rides, adjusting the trim plugin level makes for a simple and quick overall tweak. Trim is built into all my session templates and track presets

Food for thought
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  #18  
Old 07-22-2021, 11:49 AM
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

A bit of levity - You will spend hundreds of hours on a mix, make pain staking decisions of different compressors, and effects and eq. Loads of time spent deciding 24bit, 32bit, 44k, 48 etc...

Send the song to your friends and post it on a public cloud offering and 99.9% of listeners will play it through crappy speakers on their mobile device, or earbuds.

Long gone are the days where someone enters a dedicated music library in their house, turns on their NAD receiver connected to the most expensive speakers, takes a snifter of brandy and sits back and enjoys a record from cover to cover.

As others have said; 24bit/ 44k, and make music and enjoy it. Remember anyone over 40 years old and beyond will not hear anything beyond 8k anyway. And the under 40's will just play stuff on their mobile devices.
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  #19  
Old 07-22-2021, 12:58 PM
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_g View Post
A bit of levity - You will spend hundreds of hours on a mix, make pain staking decisions of different compressors, and effects and eq. Loads of time spent deciding 24bit, 32bit, 44k, 48 etc...



As others have said; 24bit/ 44k, and make music and enjoy it. Remember anyone over 40 years old and beyond will not hear anything beyond 8k anyway. And the under 40's will just play stuff on their mobile devices.
Can't say I'd go that far. I can certainly hear way beyond 8K, as can most folks in my age group(over 60). Another reason I use 48K is because most video uses 48K audio(and most stuff I work on ends up on youtube at some point). I will agree with you on no song ever became a hit based on any of this tech stuff, or because of a mic, preamp, console, etc. It starts with a catchy song and a solid(or amazing) performance. The recording/mixing side mostly needs to not ruin it. I can't even count how many great hits were done with distortion, bad mix choices or outright mistakes
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  #20  
Old 07-24-2021, 10:58 AM
noobstudioguy noobstudioguy is offline
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Default Re: 32bit or 24bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmacdaddy View Post
<<Why is 32-bit better for clip gain?>>

32-bit 'float' is better because it has the ability to represent up to 1528 dB of Amplitude – way more than needed (earth's limit is around 210 dB from a 'blast wave')

So if a file clips (due to your input level to the 32-bit A to D) on tracking, you can actually 'pull it down with clip gain/AudioSuite' and eliminate the distortion.

And as Bob and JFreak mentioned above:
32 won't be able to remove distortion from your analog chain
32 won't be able to remove distortion from an overloaded 24-bit converter
32 will be better for 'file based processing' and 'printing out' Virtual Instruments


Here is a good explaination:
https://www.sounddevices.com/32-bit-...les-explained/

I can turn down a clipped vocal even if it was clipped during tracking, that is news to me. What if my converter is 24bit? Then 32bit isn't an option for me right?
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