Master fader level vs headroom -help please

[cary chilton]

I read a few threads that you should try making sure your drum mono and stereo tracks in BFD's input signal (are at a starting point)be at -12db to max headroom in on verall mix. I read that the master fader fader output should only approach 0db, so like -0.3 , -0.1 etc.... I tried it and the results were better than I had before... BUT

What about guitars, vox and bass, synth etc? Should the mic pre signal also be set hot as possible before clipping on the tracks fader and THEN setting the tracks fader level at -12db, as a good starting point with the goal of the master fader near 0db?

BTW I when I mixed and submixed everything so that the reading on the master was near 0 db, the overall output WAS TOO quiet for my liking, but the dynamics and the clarity were nice. Bare with me, this is my first attempt at mixing.... So then, on the master, I inserted the MAXIM plug and lowered the threshold (-4db or so)and the overall mix on the master was much louder but still clear. I set MAXIM noise shaping and 20 bit. THen below I inserted POWR, at 16 bit ( should I pick 20bit?) and then selected noise 2. So far the results are pretty good. I really want to Ozone to make it better. Would Ozone essentially replace Maxim's function?

Can anyone pros here explain what I can do better or if I did things correctly? How would I better use Maxim? I hope this thread will get out a lot of info. for many people here who I know will find this stuff as useful as me.

[MikeTrahearn]

Intrigued - why 20 bit? With the set up you have there, you should leave maxim's dither at 24 bit (essentially off) and no noise shaping. Use the POW-r dither for dithering to 16 bit and set the noise shaping to suit. Dithering as you know is only used when bouncing to disk for the purpose of putting onto CD. Otherwise, leave it off for mixing.

You should also use the link button on maxim to connect the threshold and ceiling and reduce both till you hear what you consider to be unpleasant limiting. Back off a bit, then unlink the sliders and bring the ceiling back up to just under zero say, -0.2 db. The release slider will determine the character of maxim when it is in limiting mode (the audio goes into the orange zone).

Ozone is good, as is T-Racks for a more analogue sound, or Waves L3 but there are many more mastering plugins out there. I have a friend who only has the Stock LE plugis and gets some good results from T-Racks EQ->BF76->Maxim->POW-r dither. Its cheap and cheerful, but it works for quick demos.

There are many other threads here about mastering, look up chris cavell for a very good post there.

Also, another thing covered elsewhere is the use of an Aux track as a summing buss target before the master fader, with your mastering plugs on the aux not the master. This way, you can leave your master fader at 0, and your aux (so long as its in pre-fade metering) will show up any clipping caused by your mastering plugs. Aux plugs are pre-fader but master plugs are post. Otherwise, you could be lowering the master fader and potentially hide nasty clips from the plugs.
This also protects the behaviour of any plugins dependant on level for character e.g. compressors being affected by any fade out automation on the master track.

Hope this helps

Mike

[cary chilton]

So should have used Maxim ( for limiting)and powR instead of the Limiter III and powR?
I simply picked 20 bit on powR because that was the highest. So I can pick maxim's 24 bit dither and then dither again with powR at 16 bit? Why? Can you explain it to me?

thanks

[IntelDoc]

If you are bouncing and dithering to CD you want the POWr to be 16 bit. CD's are 44/16. no less, no more.

All the POWr does in dither.

[dubhausdisco1]

when I mixed and submixed everything so that the reading on the master was near 0 db, the overall output WAS TOO quiet for my liking, but the dynamics and the clarity were nice. Bare with me, this is my first attempt at mixing....

Then your job is done... Given your experience level, it's best to have someone master it, or bounce what you have and start a new session to master it.
It's all about what sounds good. Don't worry if it sounds too quiet.. everything you ever do in protools will sound "too quiet" compared to the horrifically squashed commercial cd's nowadays.

from what Mike responded: "Also, another thing covered elsewhere is the use of an Aux track as a summing buss target before the master fader, with your mastering plugs on the aux not the master. This way, you can leave your master fader at 0, and your aux (so long as its in pre-fade metering) will show up any clipping caused by your mastering plugs. Aux plugs are pre-fader but master plugs are post. "

This is utter BS! The meters on the Master will show you what your plugs are doing. He is right to make sure none of the plugs in this makeshift "mastering" chain are clipping. This very important, and this is why a lot of home studio folks can't get a big sound from LE. Just bypass each one one at a time and make sure they are not clipping.

Oh, and don't EVER touch the master fader unless you are doing a fade...Leave it at unity gain (0)..Get your gain structure together before it hits the master bus. You will be pleased with the results!

[titiz]

I read a few threads that you should try making sure your drum mono and stereo tracks in BFD's input signal (are at a starting point)be at -12db to max headroom in on verall mix. I read that the master fader fader output should only approach 0db, so like -0.3 , -0.1 etc.... I tried it and the results were better than I had before... BUT

What about guitars, vox and bass, synth etc? Should the mic pre signal also be set hot as possible before clipping on the tracks fader and THEN setting the tracks fader level at -12db, as a good starting point with the goal of the master fader near 0db?

BTW I when I mixed and submixed everything so that the reading on the master was near 0 db, the overall output WAS TOO quiet for my liking, but the dynamics and the clarity were nice. Bare with me, this is my first attempt at mixing....

maybe you should try a book from Bob Katz called "the art of mastering audio", He talks about levels and monitors calibration which helped me and should help you, simply put his idea is to raise the volume on your monitoring system : this helps you being satisfied with the audio level you hear so you don't end up squashing your mix and you have something usable in the mastering session ; when you begin in mixing you're always searching for this 1 Db dynamic graal and that's the problem.
by the way your way to proceed with headroom is a good way to start.

Anthony

[cary chilton]

Crazy blues jam is the tune that I am trying to mix right now: check it out

http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page...?bandID=516588

I put a limit III ( gentle limit -setting) and then dither.
Should I use maxim instead of limit III or T-racks?

BTW is Ozone 3 worth getting or can T-racks or maxim do the trick?

Also, any REAL mastering in the future I will ALways send it away to mastering. However, I do want to know enough to make a sweet demo all on my pt le.

[MikeTrahearn]

The meters on the Master will show you what your plugs are doing. He is right to make sure none of the plugs in this makeshift "mastering" chain are clipping. This very important, and this is why a lot of home studio folks can't get a big sound from LE. Just bypass each one one at a time and make sure they are not clipping.

You are of course very correct in your explaination.
An inexperienced mixer may make the mistake of using the master fader to pull down the levels to "prevent clipping" in the master bus, not realising that the clipping is still occurring in the bus after the plugins, the lower fader will mean the meter is lower and the clip light does not show and the level "appears" ok. It could be not so! Go back and check your plugins.

I talk with many starter PT users and the kind of errors they make are truly amazing! I mean - reverbs on every track and not an aux in sight ...

This is an elementary mistake, which we should not assume people may not make in early days with PT.
As was said by many on this forum, leave your master fader at 0.

Please politely help others who need to be encouraged on this precarious journey. We were all there once.

Mike

[IntelDoc]

I always start mixing with the fader at -1. 24 bits gives you plenty of headroom. However, do not go in and slam your signals, your aux's, your sends, etc. One thing that has not been touched that a lot of new people do is hype their speakers. Meaning that maybe the guy does not have a treated room, thinks that he needs to turn up the monitors to "Hear" it all better, hence hyping the speakers to hear the stuff that at lower levels he cannot. Then he decides that the reverb is not tailing properly so he crushes tat and clips the fader. Now, there is nothing wrong with hitting the red on stuff as long as there is not a digital distortion. Hell, I hammer my snares and kics all the time. True you will gain experience down the line ad NOT do this, be every once and awhile it is a good thing and sounds good for the tune. It is only "Rock and Roll" right? but I like it. You can eaily lower, and I have the master fader heck 10db and still get levels when it goes to mastering houses. They just bring it back up to level and hopefully it sounds good. Look at the Charles Dye DVD, he is a famous mixer and always (according to him) starts a MIX session at -1db on the Master fader. The bottom line is you can do it. I have lowered mixes -6db before and they are fine. Nowadays though I keep it all at -1 and use plugs and get signal alot better than back when I started, but it is alright. Make it sound good.... then figure it out later.

Doc

[ad1]

I appreciate all of the good threads on here which are very insightful. I am hip hop beat maker and in the process of mixing (first time mixing) which I am experiencing problems when I use a aux channel for reverb for my main vox everything starts to run real slow? In addition, I admit I do pull back on the master fader to prevent clipping. Any other suggested readings or videos that would help? Thanks!