TO ALL PRO TOOLS USERS

[acdc]

PLEASE VISIT THE "PRO TOOLS 5.0 LE" SECTION OF THIS FORUM AND BACK UP OUR POSTS DEMANDING SMPTE ON THE PRODUCT.

WE NEED YOUR SUPPORT TO GET TIME CODE BACK ON PROTOOLS LE.

THANK YOU

[Kasper]

This impacts every Digi user,big or small.

What will be the next to get the axe from Digi? PT III systems ? non 24 bit users ? or will they deny upgrades to everyone except Mix+ owners ?

We need to come together and let Digi know we just won't stand for it.

kasper

[iamstudios]

I think this is utter non-sense... you can't expect a $1500 car to have the same qualities and extra's a car of $150000 has, except that it drives, can you?

I'm sorry guys... but if you want the REAL thing... buy the REAL thing...

Barnier

[mike connelly]

Wrong. There are certain minimum things you expect with any product. With ANY car, you expect a steering wheel, a rearview mirror, windows, seats.

SMPTE is a basic function available in virtually every piece of multitrack audio software available. It is not the least bit unreasonable to expect a $999 hardware/software combination to have a feature that is available in many audio packages that range from $100-$500.


Mike

[iamstudios]

Ok, you are right. SMPTE is pretty basic indeed. Still I think there needs to be an enourmous difference between LE and 5.0 to justify the $k+ for the 'pro'-thing.. but ok... an absence of SMPTE is bad...
Thanks for the insight.

Barnier

[bradleyb]

Ditto.... EVERY major sequencing program has SMPTE capabilities. Vision DSP has it and other midi capabilities in spades over PT and it's $59.00 for christsakes! In addition, Toolbox with AMIII and PT 4.3 had it = $595.00. How would you feel if "upgraded" from Escort to a Town Car only later to realize that you couldn't steer the damn thing...

[Felix]

Well, PTIII owners have already seen some axes and may as well be expecting more to axes come. Forecast: light axe-showers early on in the week gradually turning to moderate axe-monsoon conditions by Friday and Saturday, if still alive to take in the inspiring splendor of it all! ...uhm, yeah, i'm a ptiii owner, by the way.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Kasper:
This impacts every Digi user,big or small.

What will be the next to get the axe from Digi? PT III systems ? non 24 bit users ? or will they deny upgrades to everyone except Mix+ owners ?

We need to come together and let Digi know we just won't stand for it.

kasper<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Kasper]

imperium-

I don't expect the same things.

My TDM system has more converters, more I/O, rackmount hardware etc.This is what I paid for.

I also paid for the ability to transfer sessions and run the same software on my AMIII system.Digi is now breaking that promise and screwing us out of features we have already paid for.

If we allow this to happen , where will it end?

kasper

[dcornutt]

Id like to go on record here as saying..Im for having ALL the missing tools back into le. Thats right..all of them. The full version of protools.

I think a track limit of cpu 24 tracks and non tdm plugs...host based system is enough difference between PT 24/mix and le.

This is of course not to mention that the PT 24 is waaaay over priced in todays market.

Ask yourself..how much has PT/24 grown in the last few years? How many more tracks do you get? How much more DSP? How many features have been added? And, how much does it cost?

Then look at what other companies are offering. The "host" audio/midi apps are gaining features, tracks, etc..every month...and..the cost is stable..or dropping.

If you look at something like..the motorcycle market. ...what is the most competetive ..biggest selling part of the motorcycle market? The 600cc sport bike market.

They spend more money on R&D shaving weight off of, adding power too, using exotic metals..on...thats right..600's. Thats where there name is made. People will say...wow..if there 600 goes like that...I bet the 900 just smokes! Acutally...the 900 ..per cc...is not near the bike the 600 is.

If you equate this to the current audio/midi market...you come up with this..
the big market right now..is not in TDM multi thousand systems..(hence Digi's entry into the sub 1000 market). But, the price/performance ratio for this market is VERY competitive. The higher up the scale you go...the more money..per added performance.Its just like trying to make a motorcycle go over 150 mph. ..for every mph over 100...it takes increasing amounts of power for every mph. Its the 0 to 100 accel thats where the big market is. Theres always the market for the.."this one goes to 11" crowd...but..thats a much smaller market.

So, Ill say this...Digi was aimed at the right spot..they just missed the whole target..by taking out the wrong stuff. They should have pumped everything they could into the 001/toolbox. Even if they used every feature available execpt TDM..they still would have come up short in some areas..like scoring (charts)...etc..but..the place where Digi has experience..like the user interface..how to truly integrate audio/midi into one app...and the playback engine from DAE....they could have just absolutely killed this market. Instead...its a half ass shot at it.

Oh, they will sell a few 001/s...but..they won't sell many 002's and thats what its all about. Not only that...the upgrade path from 001 to PT24 is soooo steep..they have no chance of keeping these people when they grow to that "next step"..and need alittle more that fits into their growing business..or hobby. (without smpte..and the other missing tools..this "need" to upgrade up will be accellerated). It won't take most of these "hobbiest" a month to bounce the bottom of PTle and say...hey...I should be able to do that. Then say..well..I like my 001..its cool..mabey I can upgrade alittle..and get that. Only to find out..they cant..and leave altogether. Big mistake.

This is strike 2 for Digi in my opinion. They really went off half cocked.

Id like to end by saying..that I think they have well engineered ..well playing ..stable products. ..and thats worth something. The fact that the marketing depts butchered it..is a shame. I think they should have gone the other way. Im sure it was discussed at some point. Mabey they will change course.

I wouldn't worry too much about your PT24 system and what you paid for it. That kind of capability is expensive in any format/company. But..under a thousand...host based land..its another game.

So, Ill say it again...lets have all those tools that aren't dependent on TDM..the time/compress/expand plugin..the scroll options..the timecode options. ..these are what would have made these products stand out for these are Digi's STRONG points. What you left in was not only your weakest points..but..you stripped it to the bone.
A good playback engine..and well designed gui..are nice..but..you have to think of the whole package AND your competition.

Just my opinion..and I hope I haven't offended anyone. I also would like to thank Digi for this board...for allowing aplace to "aire' these thoughts in a constructive way.
I hope that some of these thoughts and feelings make it your way..in your "suredly" spirited talks over these matters.

dfc

[editor]

This is a tough issue, there is too little pwr. in the low end digi systems; and the high end digi systems cost too much in the "bang per the buck" area.

I have been a Pro Tools user since day one, I knew what the digi brochure smelled like. I recognize my own thinking in many of these posts. I was very angry a decade ago when sound tools users got the same whoping 4 count em' 4 tracks, that I got as a pro tools user; because digi added support for the sound tools interface and card in pro tools software. Truth is digi could add almost every feature that the full blown PT systems have in the 001 systems; and they probably will offer a full blown 001 before they abandon the hardware altogether. The guy who said "buy the real thing" will also know the sting of 001 users having almost every feature he has in a flag ship system, at a fraction of the cost.

If the world were perfect, bullets wouldn't be available for guns. Digi should do like apple did, scale down the product line, make a killer, reasonably priced system, that is 100% supported. The market place is full of audio cards that will eventually run digi out of business. Probably sooner than later.

[This message has been edited by editor (edited January 28, 2000).]