11 rack with power amp - how much power?

[Sf Audio]

For those of you who use a SS power amp/cab setup with the 11 rack - how much power are you using? Do you find that the more wattage gives the 11 rack more headroom and therefore a better sound? (Maybe the modeling sounds do better with a higher powered amp?) Asking because I'm using an old BGW 50W power amp that sounds flat and lifeless with the 11 rack (and its driving two 75 watt eminence speakers). I guess it could be the amp too...it's old.

looking at something like the rocktron velocity 300 used in mono bridged mode for the full 300 watts...

Thanks

[JuanPC]

I did some tests with the AAX plugin...
Vs.
Real Marshall jcm900 vs.
Alesis GT 100w preset.

Using a Marshall 4x12 Celestion vintage 30
The marshal cab can be split, Left & Right... 8ohms each.

Watts depends on the loudspeaker installed.

Right was the jcm900
Left was the plugin -->PA "live/club sound amplifier" Peavey CS200x in bridge mode.

Tweaked as close as possible...@ 96KHz.
I liked the plugin better... Has a sweeter sound... Because plugin emulates the JCM800 with cabs turned-off.

AD/DA converters affect,
Amplifier,
DI box, etc...
Also tested against a Fender Vibro.

Qsc amplifiers have the best bass, & some series have also amazing detailed highs... But the mids sound compressed, like limited... Not so great for this kind of application.

I do not recommend the Qsc rmx850 for this type of application.
The Qsc mx700 it's ok.
The Mackie fr800 could be nice.
Crest audio ca-2/4 could be ok.
Crown d-75, d-45, d-150, d-300, etc...

But the best amplifier I've heard so far was the Naim, amazing sound.
McIntosh could be nice...
Cambridge Audio could be nice..
Marantz, also. New preferably , old units need too much restoration.
etc...

Other way to do it, is to use a full range PA loudspeaker, and using the speaker emulation also...

But I think using real guitar loudspeakers is the way.

[Darryl Ramm]

Originally Posted by Sf Audio

For those of you who use a SS power amp/cab setup with the 11 rack - how much power are you using? Do you find that the more wattage gives the 11 rack more headroom and therefore a better sound? (Maybe the modeling sounds do better with a higher powered amp?) Asking because I'm using an old BGW 50W power amp that sounds flat and lifeless with the 11 rack (and its driving two 75 watt eminence speakers). I guess it could be the amp too...it's old.

looking at something like the rocktron velocity 300 used in mono bridged mode for the full 300 watts...

Thanks

Likely way too little power. You cannot compare the power rating of a guitar amp and a solid state "Hi-Fi" amplifier.

You have to watch out for how much SPL accounts for the perception of what you are hearing, especially for a live "guitar amp in the room" sound.

Easiest results with a amp simulator like the Eleven Rack (or Axe FX or others) are usually obtained using a full-range PA or stage monitor type setup with relatively high power. e.g.I use a QSC K-10 (which wants to claim 1,000 watts, but that's fairly meaningless except to say it is much more output power than your tiny 50W amp), its fairly popular with Eleven Rack users. And will take you from home/practice room use with a band up to small gig venues. Anything more serious you should be plugging into a FOH system.

With a full range speaker systems like this, the Eleven Rack cab emulation is important and you will want to play with that, including speaker breakup settings.

If using say two QSC K-10 in a room I'd play with various speaker orientations and balances of direct/wall reflected sound. especially if you want an airy/open back cab feel to thing.

[JoelG]

I'm happy with my 100 watt Art SLA-1 with a 4x12", but I'm sure it isn't ideal. It definitely keeps up with my hard hitting drummer though.

As Darryl mentioned FRFR is probably what you should be looking for if you have the cash, and wan't to get the most out of your 11R.

Joel

[Sf Audio]

Actually I prefer the guitar speakers over the FRFR sound. I know that good results can be had, it just requires more tweaking. Seems that clean headroom is what the 11R needs. And a lot of tweaking to your specific system to get the sounds you want.

So a good, clean power amp seems be the next thing for me to try. I'm leaning towards the velocity 300 as it has additional controls for shaping the sound. When it comes to modeling its not just plug and play, unfortunately....you need a lot of tweakability!

[zedhed]

Originally Posted by Sf Audio

Actually I prefer the guitar speakers over the FRFR sound.

The concept of using FRFR for modelers is to embrace the full rig 'modeled' sound without adding inflections from other components in the signal chain. Sure, one can turn the amp/cab modeling off but then the variety of tones aren't available so IMHO one is defeating the purpose of using a modeler in the first place.

Having said that, I run a Mesa Amp/Cab in parallel to the 11R/Atomic so I can blend modeled sounds with true tube tones.

The result is simply outstanding.

If you haven't checked out the Atomic range at least give it a look and if you get a chance try one out. Active units are rated @ 500 Watt Bi-Amped with Active Crossover. Passive cabs also available.

http://atomicamps.com/clr-reference-frfr-monitors/

I use the active Atomic monitor & the Mesa_Cab onstage, and also plug both rigs into FOH...freaking awesome sound at either low or high gain/volume with a ton of variable tones.

Only downside; (apart from the 11R) It aint the cheapest option