"AUTOMATION too dense" error 20021 w/ 2024.10

[Benny Mouthon]

@Frank Kruse + @lucienpalmer; were you by any chance using the latest Eucontrol 2024.10 ??

I'm on another mix so staying with 2024.06 for now, but wondering if the two updates make this go away..

[lucienpalmer]

No, I’m on WSControl for the S6 here.


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[Benny Mouthon]

Originally Posted by lucienpalmer

No, I’m on WSControl for the S6 here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Interesting: I haven't updated our two Atmos studios yet (still 2024.06+WSControl, S6's), this issue was at home (Mac Studio 14.6.1 w/ 2x S1's)

[marianna]

Originally Posted by lucienpalmer

Rolling back to 2024.6 made it go away for me.

I’m pretty sure I’m not using Channel Strip anymore. It’s possible I still have a few on uneven returns. I’ll have to check through my session and test 2024.10 without them.


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Lucien

I spoke with Michael in Beta and Mark in CC and they felt a case was the best approach so I created one with all your data and file you sent me.

Case # 04889231

Thanks for sending and if you do find out anything else with regards to 2024.10, please let me know.

marianna

[barden]

Hello all...

I'll offer a couple of things that I've noticed as this error (or error combo) has just started for me in the last 72 hours and I've never experienced it before.

First, I'm on 2024.10 and the latest EuControl (2024.10.0.19 EuCon 5.1.4.19). HD Native on a Mac Studio M1 Ultra running Ventura (13.4.1) 128GB RAM.

Session is 5.1 feature mix...lots of bussing to the typical multiple stems / deliverables etc. 48k, 24bit, 24fps, 304 voices used...system usage nowhere near being maxed out.

Tracks are foldered (some regular folders; some routing)...VO, Dx, Mx, Bg, Fx, Fo, etc. (I mention the folders because perhaps they have something to do with this error?)

NO Channel Strip being used anywhere but my dialogue chain includes FF Pro-Q3 and Pro-DS amongst others. I also have a Pro-Q3 on each track.

During my dialogue pre-mix, I was getting the AAE error followed by the -20021 error quite regularly. 10 times per hour perhaps? Sometimes it would happen while writing automation (fader *or* EQ *or* something else...) but other times I wouldn't be touching a fader.

I thought at first that it only happened when a channel Pro-Q3 *window* was open (after I attentioned an EQ off of my surface) for example but then it happened with no channel EQ open. However, my chain Pro-Q3 was still open...but I wasn't always automating it when the error would appear.

Even though that theory didn't seem to hold water, it made me start thinking that the error might have something to do with windows being open or associated with the GUI.

Here's the interesting part, perhaps related: Once I finished my DPM, I closed the dialogue folder (folder set to overview mode) and moved on to a music pass *and the error hasn't happened once*.

I didn't make any other changes to the session. My DPM chain plug-in windows are still open. Dialogue tracks are still in touch/latch. Sometimes I spill open the dialogue faders to do a touch up against music without opening the dialogue folder in the edit window...no errors.

As a test, I opened up the dialogue folder in the edit window (just a basic folder, btw) and continued working music and *experienced the error twice*. (Wasn't touching dialogue faders.)

Saved / re-opened the session, kept the dialogue folder open, re-worked a dialogue scene for about 20 minutes and experienced the error at least once. (Might have been more...it's a bit of a blur.)

Saved / re-opened the session, closed the dialogue folder, no errors all day (now about 6 hours of work).

Session is a replica of one I used on a project just before the holidays with no issues at all. (Duped the .ptx, cleared all clips / media, wrote out all automation, imported new cut tracks, lifted those clips onto my mix tracks.). Not sure if that qualifies as the session being "based upon a template" but that was my workflow. It's a session that I've used / enhanced / modified for years now. I've never had an issues and have done several mixes since 2024.10 was released.

Anyway, I thought I'd post this to see if folder states affect the behaviour on your respective systems at all or if this helps Marianna and her crew arrive at a possible cause.

Best wishes for the New Year to all,
Barden

[marianna]

Originally Posted by barden

Hello all...

I'll offer a couple of things that I've noticed as this error (or error combo) has just started for me in the last 72 hours and I've never experienced it before.

First, I'm on 2024.10 and the latest EuControl (2024.10.0.19 EuCon 5.1.4.19). HD Native on a Mac Studio M1 Ultra running Ventura (13.4.1) 128GB RAM.

Session is 5.1 feature mix...lots of bussing to the typical multiple stems / deliverables etc. 48k, 24bit, 24fps, 304 voices used...system usage nowhere near being maxed out.

Tracks are foldered (some regular folders; some routing)...VO, Dx, Mx, Bg, Fx, Fo, etc. (I mention the folders because perhaps they have something to do with this error?)

NO Channel Strip being used anywhere but my dialogue chain includes FF Pro-Q3 and Pro-DS amongst others. I also have a Pro-Q3 on each track.

During my dialogue pre-mix, I was getting the AAE error followed by the -20021 error quite regularly. 10 times per hour perhaps? Sometimes it would happen while writing automation (fader *or* EQ *or* something else...) but other times I wouldn't be touching a fader.

I thought at first that it only happened when a channel Pro-Q3 *window* was open (after I attentioned an EQ off of my surface) for example but then it happened with no channel EQ open. However, my chain Pro-Q3 was still open...but I wasn't always automating it when the error would appear.

Even though that theory didn't seem to hold water, it made me start thinking that the error might have something to do with windows being open or associated with the GUI.

Here's the interesting part, perhaps related: Once I finished my DPM, I closed the dialogue folder (folder set to overview mode) and moved on to a music pass *and the error hasn't happened once*.

I didn't make any other changes to the session. My DPM chain plug-in windows are still open. Dialogue tracks are still in touch/latch. Sometimes I spill open the dialogue faders to do a touch up against music without opening the dialogue folder in the edit window...no errors.

As a test, I opened up the dialogue folder in the edit window (just a basic folder, btw) and continued working music and *experienced the error twice*. (Wasn't touching dialogue faders.)

Saved / re-opened the session, kept the dialogue folder open, re-worked a dialogue scene for about 20 minutes and experienced the error at least once. (Might have been more...it's a bit of a blur.)

Saved / re-opened the session, closed the dialogue folder, no errors all day (now about 6 hours of work).

Session is a replica of one I used on a project just before the holidays with no issues at all. (Duped the .ptx, cleared all clips / media, wrote out all automation, imported new cut tracks, lifted those clips onto my mix tracks.). Not sure if that qualifies as the session being "based upon a template" but that was my workflow. It's a session that I've used / enhanced / modified for years now. I've never had an issues and have done several mixes since 2024.10 was released.

Anyway, I thought I'd post this to see if folder states affect the behaviour on your respective systems at all or if this helps Marianna and her crew arrive at a possible cause.

Best wishes for the New Year to all,
Barden

Excellent scoop...... I created a case for you SB and entered as much info as I could to help the tech and engineering on this one. I didnt have your system ID so they will probably ask for it so have it on hand.

Case # 04913861

Thanks again for the deets and happy new year to you as well.

Marianna

[Pedro Lima]

Hi everybody.

In an attempt to help find a cure, I'll share my experience.
I'm on a process much like Barden's: a dialogue premix for a feature film. I mean, a session with not too much track/ Voice/ count. Not too many automations yet.
And on that specific reel, this error "AAE -20021" appear often, forcing to reopen the session, because you can't play from anywhere in the timeline - you have to close the session. And when reopen, is like nothing had happened - you can play from anywhere in the session.
Since I use a variety of plugins, I can't say that is a specific plugin. I use Sonnox, Eventide, even UADx (Native) plugins, etc.
But I really suspect that is related to any automation - with me, crash always happen on an automation step, like on a simple tweak on a fader.

I already open a case at Avid, I've sent to them a log file taken just after the crash but due to the file's security protocol I couldn't attach it here.
And any elinghtment coming from Avid's support, I'll let the community know.

[smurfyou]

Originally Posted by Pedro Lima

Hi everybody.

In an attempt to help find a cure, I'll share my experience.
I'm on a process much like Barden's: a dialogue premix for a feature film. I mean, a session with not too much track/ Voice/ count. Not too many automations yet.
And on that specific reel, this error "AAE -20021" appear often, forcing to reopen the session, because you can't play from anywhere in the timeline - you have to close the session. And when reopen, is like nothing had happened - you can play from anywhere in the session.
Since I use a variety of plugins, I can't say that is dia a specific plugin. I use Sonnox, Eventide, even UADx (Native) plugins, etc.
But I really suspect that is related to any automation - with me, crash always happen on an automation step, like on a simple tweak on a fader.

I already open a case at Avid, I've sent to them a log file taken just after the crash but due to the file's security protocol I couldn't attach it here.
And any elinghtment coming from Avid's support, I'll let the community know.

That's my experience as well. Posted in the other similar thread for this error. Session was not too busy and definitely not automation heavy yet. One panning move and it brought it up. Closed, reopened and never came back.

[Pedro Lima]

Something I forgot to mention: error -9179 (automation in too thin) always pops up before error -20021 .

[matthewlthomas]

I've been hit with this too now. Anyone know if upgrading to OS 15.3.1 would maybe solve? Currently on 14.7.4.

This started with the newest version of Pro Tools Ultimate 2024.10.2

Never had this issue before, it's super annoying.

Same 5.1 post template I have used for a while now with no issues and fairly minimum automation.