Avid Pro Audio Community

Avid Pro Audio Community

How to Join & Post  •  Community Terms of Use  •  Help Us Help You

Knowledge Base Search  •  Community Search  •  Learn & Support


Avid Home Page

Go Back   Avid Pro Audio Community > Legacy Products > Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac)

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-05-2011, 02:16 PM
ampnerd ampnerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 91
Default Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

Just wondering if anyone has thoughts on upgrading older PT HD PCIx systems now that things have opened up with PT9.

For my personal rig in my home studio, a couple years ago I managed to get on the tail end of the upgrades from PCIx to PCIe and got a Mac 8 core and went from 3 PCIx cards to 2 PCIe cards for a reasonable price and the benefit I gained in the extra power of the Intel machine far outweighed losing the 3rd Accel card as I started using mostly RTAS plugs etc.

But for the other studio I run for my day job I have a very different predicament. They have an old G5 dual 2.5, a Digidesign 7 slot expansion chassis and 4 PCIx cards, one Core and 3 Accel. For converters we're using 3 Lynx Aurora 16's for 48 channels of I/O in 32 channel mode, meaning one interface per card (can't use the expansion connector).

I've researched my options and the first one would be to: a) buy a new Mac Pro, b) Upgrade the motherboard and daughtercard in the expansion chassis (costs $1500 according to the company). This would let me keep my existing PCIx cards in the expansion chassis and the new PCIe daughtercard would go into the Mac Pro. I have a friend running his system this way and he says it works fine.

This option seems to be the least expensive way to go but my worry is a) I'm still using the same 8 year old, almost redundant cards, and b) I'm starting to have a lot of weirdness happen with this older system and I while I can't specifically attribute it to the cards I do feel that a new computer AND new cards would be a clean start and would eliminate any doubt as to if the old cards were starting to fail.

The second option would be to sell the expansion chassis, PCIx cards and G5 for whatever I can get (which now that Pro Tools 9 is out is probably worth next to nothing as there's not even that market for older used HD systems anymore now that you can use any hardware) and buy a new Mac Pro and new HD3 system. This is the most expensive option but definitely the one that fills me with the most confidence. The only drawback is that I would fill all 3 slots in the Mac Pro with the 3 HD cards so I could not add a UAD-2 for example. I guess I could buy a new expansion chassis but that seems like pretty redundant technology at this point.

So my big question is on a possible third option. Now that PT9 can work with any hardware I'm wondering if any studios out there with bigger Pro Tools rigs are using or are contemplating using their rigs without HD cards. For example, in theory I could take the Lynx LT-HD cards out of the 3 Aurora's and replace them with LT-FW (firewire) cards instead. Hook them up with a firewire hub to the Mac Pro and I would have exactly the same features I had before (48 channels of analog I/O) minus the ability to use TDM plugs (big deal!)…Or, am I missing something here, are there TDM only software features that I lose and do other issues such as latency while tracking a full band come in to play?

If anyone has any ideas I'd love to hear them. I'm sure I'm not the only person is the same kind of predicament.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-05-2011, 02:40 PM
digidesigner digidesigner is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: World
Posts: 2,191
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

I don't want to sound like a broken record, but under Windows7 these same "old" PCIx cards are still "current" and you can run HD4 in a computer without chassis with PT9HD, many people seem to not realize this. I do love macs and always suggest to people who have the cash to go Mac and PCIe, but for these, who seek HD tdm performance but would like to keep cost under control then 1500USD 4core PC is a good way to go PT9HD keeping the old cards.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-05-2011, 02:55 PM
Drew Mazurek's Avatar
Drew Mazurek Drew Mazurek is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 11,628
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

PT9 (non HD) tops out at 32 channels of I/O.
__________________
www.drewmazurek.com

Mixing and Mastering click here to get started.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 01-05-2011, 02:55 PM
ampnerd ampnerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 91
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

Thanks Digidesigner! After I posted I found your post about your switch from Mac to Windows (shame on you! only kidding)...

That sounds like a really good way to go as the cost of the PC would be about the same as the cost of upgrading the expansion chassis alone! Now if I could just bring myself to look at a Windows screen.....

Thanks for the help.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-05-2011, 03:02 PM
Jon_Atkinson Jon_Atkinson is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: London
Posts: 881
Default

Another option, just to add to the list would be keep the Lynx and get a new Mac and HD Native.

Loads of possibilities....
__________________
Mac Pro 2019 3.5GHz 8 Core 48GB RAM
OS 13.6.3
Protools Studio 2023.12
Antelope Orion 32, Vienna Ensemble Pro 5,
UAD Quad PCIe
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 01-05-2011, 03:27 PM
Drew Mazurek's Avatar
Drew Mazurek Drew Mazurek is offline
Moderator
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 11,628
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

Quote:
Originally Posted by digidesigner View Post
I don't want to sound like a broken record, but under Windows7 these same "old" PCIx cards are still "current" and you can run HD4 in a computer without chassis with PT9HD, many people seem to not realize this. I do love macs and always suggest to people who have the cash to go Mac and PCIe, but for these, who seek HD tdm performance but would like to keep cost under control then 1500USD 4core PC is a good way to go PT9HD keeping the old cards.
Can this PC stay connected to the net 24/7 and upload/download while working?
__________________
www.drewmazurek.com

Mixing and Mastering click here to get started.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-05-2011, 09:19 PM
Eric Seaberg's Avatar
Eric Seaberg Eric Seaberg is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,926
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

Ampnerd, we're in the process of doing the same thing, taking 4-G5 Dual 2GHz machines, late 2003, and making them all HD2 PCIe on MacPros. We've looked at all of the options, and since Avid/Digi is STILL offering a 'trade-in' value on PCIx cards, we're going for the full monty... upgrading all G5s to 8-Core MacPros and PCIe HD cards.

For our money and time invested in the work we do, there is no reason for us to stay with old technology! The G5s have run for 7+years with three of them already having motherboard or processor failures... they've worked well but they're DONE!

The cost per year for each Mac, especially over 7-years, has been a bargain. Hopefully we can get the same mileage from the MacPros!!
__________________
Eric Seaberg • San Diego, CA
A.E.S., I.E.E.E., S.M.P.T.E., S.P.A.R.S.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:17 PM
ampnerd ampnerd is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 91
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

Hi Eric, Thanks for the reply. Yeah, that seems like a pretty good investment when you put it that way. We've had this system since 2003/3 also so I guess we've got our money's worth.

My biggest concern is not so much from a technical standpoint of what is better, if it were only a case of that I would undoubtedly go for a new PCIe rig and be done with it, it's more a case of is Avid going to come out with some completely new thing in the next two years that puts a major expiry date on any existing hardware?

If I knew I could get another 8 years of good use out of another $10k investment and still have something at least somewhat salable at the end of it, even if not worth much I'd do it but obviously technology is moving fast and there is stuff on the horizon (Lightpeak?) that could change everything again and these companies must be looking at that already. I mean who would have thought even a year ago that Digi, sorry Avid, would ever come out with software that didn't require their proprietary hardware!

I say this from the perspective of someone who has been burned by Digi/Avid a couple of times already (more 888's just before HD came out and Process cards just before Accel cards came out). I just don't want to get burned again...
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-05-2011, 10:41 PM
PastaViking II PastaViking II is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 1999
Location: next door...
Posts: 750
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

Quote:
Originally Posted by ampnerd View Post
My biggest concern is not so much from a technical standpoint of what is better, if it were only a case of that I would undoubtedly go for a new PCIe rig and be done with it, it's more a case of is Avid going to come out with some completely new thing in the next two years that puts a major expiry date on any existing hardware?
In my crystal ball, TDM will be discontinued when Avid does a 64-bit rewrite of ProTools. It makes very little sense to keep flogging TDM (although many here disagree) since the further development of the DSP needed has long since been discontinued by Motorola and it's very limited how much more power, if any, can be added to the current design.

Rather, I think RTAS and Native will be the new standards with a possible option of an accelerator card of some sorts. Since Avid HAS to rewrite the TDM system anyway, it just makes much more sense to go the native route and get the most milage out of one technology.

In any case, any investment made in ProTools TDM cards is likely to be obsolete within the next two-three years. Good news is that the upgrade to HD2 is quite reasonably priced - so decide for yourself.

Myself, I'm building a downgraded system this month (Mac Pro, PT native with my current plugins and an RME interface) and will test run it for a while.
If I'm happy with it, I'll sell my PCI-x HD system on eBay for whatever pennies I can get, and if not I'll upgrade to PCIe. In any case I can run the two systems side-by-side.

I also really like the PC upgrade option for price, but just can't live with the idea of a Windows computer with all it's quirks as the main machine...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-06-2011, 12:04 AM
Bifop Bifop is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Marseille, France
Posts: 11
Default Re: Your thoughts for upgrading from PCIx to PCIe now we have PT9

..; Or get yourself a Hackintosh. Cheap, you keep your PCIx cards and stay under OSX.
That's what I would do.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
upgrading from PCIx to PCIe for P7R4 chassis soloan Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 19 06-29-2010 06:38 AM
PCIX or PCIE jerberson12 Pro Tools TDM Systems (Win) 4 06-02-2010 09:59 AM
PCIe or PCIx tim carter Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 5 12-03-2009 04:09 AM
HD2 PCIx to HD1 PCIe propower Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 9 02-10-2009 10:50 AM
What would you do? (PCIe or PCIx) KimSira Pro Tools TDM Systems (Mac) 3 10-23-2005 12:16 PM


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 05:43 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Limited. Forum Hosted By: URLJet.com