2024.6 MIDI Beat Clock Unusable - Many bugs and issues to be addressed

[skylar_battles]

After reading about users encountering issues with beat clock at experiencing them as well, I knew it was time for me to do some testing and report where it's at on the current Pro tools. The level of inconsistency in using this feature is pretty shocking. Also, if you don't already have it, I recommend downloading Snoize's MIDI Monitor to troubleshoot whatever MIDI issues you may be having on your Mac.

All testing done with Pro tools 2024.6 on MacOS Ventura 13.6.7 with an iConnectivity mioXM

Yesterday…

I tested using Roland's JU-06A. At first, my results weren't too bad. Besides a clear bug in MIDI beat clock where prior to bar 0 (negative bars) the sequence won't start (it will start at bar 1) it was working for a little while. With this instrument, every time playback is started from the DAW, the sequence plays back from the beginning. The only issue occurs when starting playback from any point besides the downbeat of a bar. The sequence begins to playback from the beginning and is therefore out of time with the session.

Today…

I tested using Roland's JU-06A and also Cyclone analogic's TT-78 Beat Bot. Far worse results today with the JU-06A!

1. Sometimes changing the tempo of the session causes Pro Tools to stop sending clock
2. When starting the sequence from a down beat, it stutters at first and then sort of locks in
3. Mostly, starting from bar 0 will cause the sequence to playback correctly starting at bar 1 and sound super locked in, but not always!!! Sometimes, it is way off.

The TT-78 performed even worse.

1. The only way to reliably start the sequence from the beginning of it is to start playback on beat 1 of bar 1. It sometimes works for a bit and the you'll hear something bizarre likely resulting from spurious MIDI data.
2. Unlike the Roland module, starting playback from anywhere in the session will not start the sequence at the beginning. Resuming playback anywhere besides bar 1 will start the sequence where playback was stopped resulting in the TT-78 being out of sync with the session. So for example if you stopped playback on beat 3, it would resume the 16th after or something like that when starting playback again from any position besides bar 1, beat 1.
3. Unlike the Roland module, when starting playback before bar 1 the sequence will not begin at bar 1! It just never plays.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

So overall this is a huge mess. MIDI beat clock unusable in any creative or professional situation. Imagine walking into the studio with all these cool, fun instruments, but the engineer informs you that the DAW your using's beat clock is broken so they are all basically useless. Pretty disappointing!

Here's what I imagine we need to remedy the situation:

1. Fix the bug where MIDI beat clock will not start before bar 1
2. Implement a feature that forces sequencers receiving clock to wait until the next downbeat to begin the sequence
3. Implement a feature a feature that forces sequencers receiving clock to start at the beginning of their sequence when the session gets to the down beat of the next bar

Avid probably should to take a look at how Ableton Live handles these concepts in order to make their system solid enough to use this feature during live performances of high importance on massive stages around the world.

[skylar_battles]

Anyone else affected by this?

[weezul]

Currently have an arpeggiator in MainStage which takes its' midi tempo information from Pro Tools Beat Clock. I swear sometimes even though I drop my hands bang on the grid, the pattern is not starting in the right time.

I'm having a rehearsal tomorrow and will report back. Basically my PT session runs the backing tracks, sends page turns for tablets over bonjour, IAC to Mainstage for patch changes and some automation of paramaters too, and that midi beat clock. So will try my best to really listen to that arpeggiator!

[loopzilla2]

I finally figured out the beat clock thing. Turns out if you have ANYTHING assigned as a controller peripheral (HUI - etc.) it messes up beat clock - even if there’s nothing connected. I de-assign all fader controllers when using external beat clock. Rock solid for me. Terrible with a HUI or EUCON controller assigned. Unusable.

[Dave S.]

Originally Posted by loopzilla2

I finally figured out the beat clock thing. Turns out if you have ANYTHING assigned as a controller peripheral (HUI - etc.) it messes up beat clock - even if there’s nothing connected. I de-assign all fader controllers when using external beat clock. Rock solid for me. Terrible with a HUI or EUCON controller assigned. Unusable.

I need to try this because I’ve been having the same beat clock issues. Currently have an open support case about it. Thanks for the feedback. I never thought to try something like this.

[tope d]

Originally Posted by skylar_battles

After reading about users encountering issues with beat clock at experiencing them as well, I knew it was time for me to do some testing and report where it's at on the current Pro tools. The level of inconsistency in using this feature is pretty shocking. Also, if you don't already have it, I recommend downloading Snoize's MIDI Monitor to troubleshoot whatever MIDI issues you may be having on your Mac.

All testing done with Pro tools 2024.6 on MacOS Ventura with an iConnectivity mioXM

Yesterday…

I tested using Roland's JU-06A. At first, my results weren't too bad. Besides a clear bug in MIDI beat clock where prior to bar 0 (negative bars) the sequence won't start (it will start at bar 1) it was working for a little while. With this instrument, every time playback is started from the DAW, the sequence plays back from the beginning. The only issue occurs when starting playback from any point besides the downbeat of a bar. The sequence begins to playback from the beginning and is therefore out of time with the session.

Today…

I tested using Roland's JU-06A and also Cyclone analogic's TT-78 Beat Bot. Far worse results today with the JU-06A!

1. Sometimes changing the tempo of the session causes Pro Tools to stop sending clock
2. When starting the sequence from a down beat, it stutters at first and then sort of locks in
3. Mostly, starting from bar 0 will cause the sequence to playback correctly starting at bar 1 and sound super locked in, but not always!!! Sometimes, it is way off.

The TT-78 performed even worse.

1. The only way to reliably start the sequence from the beginning of it is to start playback on beat 1 of bar 1. It sometimes works for a bit and the you'll hear something bizarre likely resulting from spurious MIDI data.
2. Unlike the Roland module, starting playback from anywhere in the session will not start the sequence at the beginning. Resuming playback anywhere besides bar 1 will start the sequence where playback was stopped resulting in the TT-78 being out of sync with the session. So for example if you stopped playback on beat 3, it would resume the 16th after or something like that when starting playback again from any position besides bar 1, beat 1.
3. Unlike the Roland module, when starting playback before bar 1 the sequence will not begin at bar 1! It just never plays.

………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………

So overall this is a huge mess. MIDI beat clock unusable in any creative or professional situation. Imagine walking into the studio with all these cool, fun instruments, but the engineer informs you that the DAW your using's beat clock is broken so they are all basically useless. Pretty disappointing!

Here's what I imagine we need to remedy the situation:

1. Fix the bug where MIDI beat clock will not start before bar 1
2. Implement a feature that forces sequencers receiving clock to wait until the next downbeat to begin the sequence
3. Implement a feature a feature that forces sequencers receiving clock to start at the beginning of their sequence when the session gets to the down beat of the next bar

Avid probably should to take a look at how Ableton Live handles these concepts in order to make their system solid enough to use this feature during live performances of high importance on massive stages around the world.

I've alerted the Pro Tools tech team including Angelo on this.

[skylar_battles]

Thanks to all those who responded! Glad the issue with Peripherals has come to light but the behavior I'm experiencing isn't from that as I don't use any in my setup.

Thanks for sending that over to Angelo, Tope! Feel free to give my info to anyone if I can be helpful in getting this sorted out.

I'll say the case I missed is when using an instrument like a Moog Subsequent 37 to sync the arpeggiator. For certain settings where just a single note is being arpeggiated and the sequence isn't dependent on starting on the downbeat to be in sync, the current implementation may be right besides the no beat clock before bar 0 bug. In cases like this, clock should "always" be sending, and it does at the moment after bar 1 | beat 1. Are than any Ableton masters on here who know how Ableton handles these different scenarios all related to MIDI clock and when sequences must wait to start until the downbeat vs. when they don't? Does any DAW provide a solution for this or does it have to do with the implementation on the drum machine or instruments themselves?

Also regarding weezul's issue, I imagine it's more complex that it seems.

Pro Tools should always be sending 24 PPQ to outputs with beat clock enabled, but the first note you play in MainStage itself couldn't be quantized in realtime according to Pro Tools' clock. So unless I'm misunderstanding your setup I couldn't imagine their would be a way for this to be truly flawless. It seems like it may be working as it should and would like to hear more about how it is working for you and your setup :)

[Dave S.]

Peripherals options didn’t solve the MIDI beat clock issues for me.

[skylar_battles]

Could you elaborate on what instruments you’re using? Curious which aspects are causing problems for you. Again, all my issues were as bad as they were with no peripherals in the picture.

[skylab001]

Midi Clock has been giving me issues since I upgraded from HD10 to an HDX system on 2023.6 last year. It is unusable, and I still haven't found a solution except for using another DAW just for all my midi which is quite a waste.



Besides the clock being flaky, does anybody else have the issue where you press Play and instead of MIDI clock, PT spits out a whole bunch of random midi gibberish for the first bar or so, even when there is nothing on any of the midi tracks? It has screwed up patch memory, patch settings and even bricked one of my vintage units.



So frustrating because my perpetual support plan is now expired with no fix and I can't even use the software for it's intended purpose. I really wish I hadn't given up my old yet rock solid HD10 system