How to monitor input during pre-roll

[tothrec2]

Hi,
Is there any way for the artist (or me in the control room) to hear their live signal on an armed track during the time before the recording/punch point arrives?

I find it unnerving to have it go silent and it makes it harder to sing/play along with the playback.

I know how to do this with the mixer that came with my converters. I want them to hear the signal through the effects chain.

Thanks in advance!

Steven

Steven Bell
Owner/Chief Engineer and Producer
Top of the Hill Studios
Duvall, WA, USA

[albee1952]

Using Quick-Punch works perfectly, as long as you DO NOT have the track in Input Monitor mode(the green I lit). That function is great for rehearsing, but NOT what you want when its time to record and punch-in. Does that help?

[tothrec2]

Thanks for the reply. I guess I didn't paint the whole picture.
No, I don't have the InputMonitor on. I read the manual's page a couple times around this.

Let's say I've got a guitarist in for an overdub session.
I've got a mic on their cab (in the amp closet).

I arm the track (so far, so good. They can hear their guitar as they tune up/warm up).

As soon as I hit Play, PT mutes their Input. Personally, I find this unnerving when I am the artist.

I really think they should be able to hear themselves as they play along with the pre-roll (getting into the groove/timing) so when we hit the record section, they are in sync and playing/singing along consistently with the surrounding take material.

I've scanned the manual as well as the Options, and most of what I find are ways to turn OFF monitoring (when the playback is stopped, for example).

Steven

[albee1952]

Aha! Now I understand. Here are some options:
1-put up an AUX track and set the input to the same as the input for the audio track you are recording to. Feed that to the player's headphones so they will hear both the recorded track and their new punch-in(levels may take a little fussing). I often do this with singers.

2-if the player is doing something like a complete solo(IOW, not punching in and out) then maybe they don't need to hear the old pass at all, in which case, use Input Monitoring so they hear themselves before recording is enabled. You just have to disable Input Monitoring to listen back.

3-Add another audio track and copy/paste audio from the original track(just what the player needs to hear before you enter record) and put them directly into record so they hear new and old audio. Once you get what you need, delete this track.

4-Put the player into record right at the start, knowing that once they finish, the underlying audio can be revealed by dragging the edge of the old track(from when you entered record) forward in the timeline so you can hear the original audio you recorded over(this assumes you DON'T use Destructive Record, and that the audio underneath the new audio wasn't cut into bits, making a drag-edit not possible).

[tothrec2]

Thank you so much for the options. Much appreciated!
I've got a guitar overdub session this week (two mics) and want to make sure it goes smoothly.

Ideally, the solution would also work when I'm tracking a full band (20+ tracks) and punching in here and there.
That's when it gets really dicey!

-Steven

[albee1952]

FWIW, in 12 years of recording in Nashville with several bands(in a commercial studio, not a home studio), this was never an issue even one time(nobody needed to hear themselves leading up to the punch-in). Every player I have ever worked with has been fine playing(or singing) along before the punch without any extra work The idea behind adding an AUX track with the same input came from a singer that kept asking for more vocal in the headphones to the point where it was all the way up(on the send fader). Adding the AUX track gave me another 12db of send(this was a one-time thing, but the trick stuck with me). Your method of work may affect this, so here was my setup:
HD/Native running at a 64 buffer with maximum 32 live inputs
6 stereo headphone mixes done with sends on every track feeding a 6-way headphone amp.(in addition to the stereo control room feed to speakers).
I used a previous session to dial in the HP mixes before a band would arrive and save that as a band template. With the band doing line-check, I would make adjustments as asked for and then the band would run the first pass. When done, I would go around all the players one more time for any needed tweaks(this rarely took more than a minute) and they would run the next take. Once the first song was "in the can", I would save the session as a new template for that band(without media) and start each song with a new session from THAT template. Good luck!

BTW, some of how successful this is depends on the experience level of the players. If they are very experienced, everything I said should hold true. If they are highly inexperienced, I simply tell them this is how its done(which it generally is) Of course, your experience level factors in as well

[EGS]

Originally Posted by albee1952

... this was never an issue even one time(nobody needed to hear themselves leading up to the punch-in). Every player I have ever worked with has been fine playing(or singing) along before the punch ...

+1. Plus, that's how punch-ins always worked with analog 24trk. Probably why PT was written that way in the first place.

[tothrec2]

Originally Posted by albee1952

FWIW, in 12 years of recording in Nashville with several bands(in a commercial studio, not a home studio), this was never an issue even one time(nobody needed to hear themselves leading up to the punch-in).

[snip]

BTW, some of how successful this is depends on the experience level of the players. If they are very experienced, everything I said should hold true. If they are highly inexperienced, I simply tell them this is how its done(which it generally is) Of course, your experience level factors in as well

I really appreciate you letting me know that it really isn't an issue. That's the thought that kept going through my mind as I banged my head against the tech wall.

And yes, I work with non-professionals, so they are easily thrown off.

Best,

Steven

[zakco]

Originally Posted by EGS

+1. Plus, that's how punch-ins always worked with analog 24trk. Probably why PT was written that way in the first place.

Not always. In the tape days, many (most?) studios tracked through the console instead of outboard preamps and input monitoring was often done right from the input channel while the playback fed the same cue mix via a playback channel. Both signals were always active and it took me quite some time to accept the limitation that PT places on input monitoring. Far from a dealbreaker and I got used to it but I've never forgotten how nice the old school cue mixes were - true zero latency and seamless punches (cue-wise). I used my RADAR system this way right up until about 2008 when I bought my first TDM rig.