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  #1  
Old 06-15-2000, 09:37 AM
Mattsound Mattsound is offline
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Default Mid/Side Stereo

When recording acoustic instruments, I tend to use the mid/side stereo technique (i.e:
cardiod mic facing forward; bi-directional
mic getting the left/right audio). Using the Digi001, I've been able to decode the M/S info using a sort of complicated method: mid audio gets recorded onto channel #1 (pan pot centered); channel # 2 and # 3 get the side audio with the pan pots set left and right respectively... I then use the "invert" Audio Suite plug-in to flip the phase on channel three to decode the audio as left/right stereo.

So, having given you all of that information, I'm just wondering if there is a somewhat easier way of decoding my m/s audio into l/r.
Specifically, I'd like to actually hear my recordings in left/right stereo while recording. Using the Audio Suite plug-in, I
only hear left/right stereo during playback, not during the actual recording. I've tried
using the RTAS "invert" plug-in while recording... Not much luck... Especially with the "invert" command labeled as part of
"automation" (?!?) on the RTAS plug-ins, rather than just being a "button" on the main screen.

Oh... Another question... Is there any sort of way to get a numeric level indication along the sides of the Digi meters? Many of my clients want and need audio set up at very specific levels (i.e.: head tone at -15 dB).
How the heck can I pull up reference numbers
to sit alongside the moving meter bar?

Thanks.

Matt Monroe
mattsound@aol.com
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  #2  
Old 06-15-2000, 10:06 AM
shaggy shaggy is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

Matt. Have you recording any 'classic kits' mid/side? Or mainly location ambience type stuff?

Mid/side encoders/decoders: Check out...

Joe Meek or CLM Dynamics
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  #3  
Old 06-15-2000, 02:24 PM
Mattsound Mattsound is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

>Matt. Have you recording any 'classic kits' mid/side? Or mainly location ambience type stuff?

My "real job" is doing location sound work on documentaries (i.e.: Discovery, National Geo, BBC, etc...); mostly dialogue, f/x, and b-roll material... Whenever possible, I always try to record my wild tracks, ambiance, and musical performances in m/s.
I picked up the Digi system so that I could start editing some of my ambiance and music tracks at home. I have some pretty dang amazing recordings from South America.

>Mid/side encoders/decoders: Check out...
Joe Meek or CLM Dynamics

Are these plug-ins or external decoders? If I'm going to go the external route, I might as well just use a phase-flip cable on an my Cooper mixer.
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  #4  
Old 06-15-2000, 02:38 PM
KennyB KennyB is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

I think that the digi eqs have a phase reverse button that would do the job of real-time inverting your side channel.

I've been doing stereo width adjustments with a similar method - convert stereo to M/S adjust the balance and convert it back...

It was a pig until I noticed the aforementioned phase reverse button.

Hope this helps..
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  #5  
Old 06-15-2000, 04:04 PM
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Arno Peeters Arno Peeters is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

Could Waves' S1 be of any help ?


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  #6  
Old 06-15-2000, 05:10 PM
BHeller BHeller is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

Matt...
Good points! I would be interested to see what ideas people have. If you do a lot of M/S, a dedicated plug-in may be worth looking at. I don't think the Waves S1 will be of any help here.

Also, I too need some sort of USEFUL numeric scale on the meters. This is a basic tool, and I don't know WHY is was omitted! Am I missing something?
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  #7  
Old 06-15-2000, 06:28 PM
Mattsound Mattsound is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

Yahoooo!!! I found the ol' phase reverse button! Silly me, I didn't realize that a "0" (i.e.: "zero") with a slash through it was the universal symbol for phase reverse or invert. I thought that it meant: "Don't Do This."

O.K., here's what you might want to do if you would like to listen to left/right stereo while recording in mid/side stereo: 1) Create three new tracks. 2) Call the first track your "mid" track, and send your mid mic signal to this channel. Set the pan pot on this track to the center postion. 3) Call your second track the "left" track, and send a "side" mic signal to this channel. Put the pan pot all the way to the left. 4) Call your third track the "right" track and also send the "side" mic signal to this channel.
Now (here's the important part) go up to the RTAS plug-in selector and choose some sort of simple plug-in. Either of the EQ's will work just fine... Anyways, look for the funny looking "anti" symbol that's just next to the input gain adjustment slider. This "anti" symbol (you know... a circle with a slash through it) is the phase flip button. PUSH THAT BUTTON! Now, just put the pan pot for this channel all the way to the right... Record Enable all three channels... And you will now be listening to glorious m/s stereo decoded into left/right. It sounds great, and you can listen while recording.


<Also, I too need some sort of USEFUL numeric scale on the meters. This is a basic tool, and I don't know WHY is was omitted! Am I missing something?

Yup... Your missing the same thing that I'm missing... A quantifiable indication of audio levels...

Matt Monroe
mattsound@aol.com

P.S.: I do have to admit that the Digi system is pretty dang cool. Myself, I find the user's manual to be pretty much useless... And so I've spent the past two weeks just kind of thrashing around on the system. I'm thinking of hiring a local Pro-Tools engineer to show me the ins-and-outs of the system in a "hands on" crash course session.
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  #8  
Old 06-20-2000, 12:30 AM
jimmyk jimmyk is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

I think there is a third party plug-in you can buy that are just meters!! Wouldn't mind checking them out myself....

jimmy
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  #9  
Old 06-22-2000, 12:57 AM
shaggy shaggy is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

Any experiences to share regarding 60s m/s drum kit mic'ing?

I believe the cardiod sat above the hihat, face down, while the figure 8 was under the hihat. But I don't know which way the pattern spread. Probably toward the pedal on the one side of the 8...?

Is anyone familiar with this. Some links to check out for your field work & m/s.

www.pmiaudio.com MD report dat/MD field adapters and m/s preamps (Joe Meek & CLM Dynamics)

www.clmdynamics.com
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  #10  
Old 06-23-2000, 07:31 AM
Doc Doc is offline
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Default Re: Mid/Side Stereo

If you control-click (command-click) the level indicator on a channel it will display peak level. While this isn't as nice as having a numeric display next to the meters, it is useful for setting reference tones. I too use m/s recording and am experimenting with a variation on this theme for surround recording without putting mics everywhere.
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