Curious about 32 track complainers

[Shan]

I guess this is what I don't understand. You have the experience, you have the accolades of top 40 hits, you know what you are doing, obviously.

2 top forty hits only bro, at this point in my career. And in Canada only at this point in time. And a few releases in India and the UK which did very well.

What kind of fee structure do you have with your clients where you cannot afford HD?

A mix is usually charged per song. No royalties. You set your fee, do your mix and get paid. I have friends who mix pretty much everyday in big studios on SSL boards. They have LE rigs at home so that they can bring stuff home to work on. But they also have mortgages, wives, kids, bills, cats, dogs etc. A mixing engineer doesnt mean a millionare. There is a ladder to climb to get to the top just like any other profession.

Are you recording/producing/arranging or mixing for free?

No. But sometimes one of your friends will want you to do some mixing or engineering for cheaper than everyone else, which I will do now and then but not often. I have done some spec work and did get all my return. Even Dave Pensado metioned that he'll do a free mix here and there for a close friend. Just make sure your friends arent musicians though or your screwed.

2 top 40 hits?! You should be getting thousands of dollars per track and looking at LE like a cereal box toy.

As mentioned earlier, you get paid a flat fee for mixing or engineering a track. Even most studio musicians that play on albums get paid a fee and no royalties. Mastering engineers are also a flat rate with no royalties. Producers negotiate differently. Some will do points(royalties), some will spec, some will charge a huge fee upfront and some will be all of the above.

But the songs you work on that get radio airplay gets you alot more work down the road. It has been a slow climb but I'm still climbing.

And I have to admit, it was a kick to turn on the radio, and here a song that was worked so hard on reach number one on their station and knock off Nickelback and Rush down a few notches.

And regarding those two songs that charted in the top 40, the song writer just recently started getting his royalty payments. It's been over a year. 9 months to a year or more is standard in this business.

The HD rig will happen. We got a good offer from our Digi dealer recently. But it will still have to be financed. Have you looked at the price of those things?

And just to let you know, every night I roll out the futon in the studio and fall asleep looking through the glass into the control room. That is something else that is not uncommon at all. One of Michael Brauers assistants lives in his studio. Why pay rent for a place when you are at your job 16 hours out of the day.

Speaking of sleep. Nite nite boys.



Shane


Oh ya, check out my boys at www.fearzero.com Buy their CD and EP so they can pay me to finish off their second album.

[dubaifox]

Interesting post Shane.

Thanks!

[martian]

I 2 roll down my couch in my booth.

this is survival- my "friend" around the corner mixes his with logic and a motu 828 - why do i need to get a mortage to compete with his track count? For me to compete with him means my rates can't accomodate a HD rig - it would be suicide!

I too am well known in my neck of the woods... he is very well known as a UK remixer - loadsa vinyl out - shows on the BBC blah...

[HotRats]

my 2cents:

say you have to record a tipical rock band,
say the line-up is vocals, 2 guitars, bass, keyboards, drums,
say the drum set is standard bd, sd, 2 toms, 1 floor tom, hihat and cymbals,
say the band would like make some extended arrangaments (compared to live arrangaments)
say you do want to make a good job,
say the above scenario is everyday life*

*not mine. i don't track bands

well, here is a possible, normal, track sheet.

1 BD MIC 1
2 BD MIC 2
3 SD OVER
4 SD BOTTOM
5 HH
6 TOM 1
7 TOM 2
8 TOM FLOOR
9 OVERHEAD L
10 OVERHEAD R
11 OTHER PERCUSSIONS 1
12 OTHER PERCUSSIONS 2
13 BASS LINE
14 BASS MIC
15 GTR CLAEN 1 DYNAMIC
16 GTR CLEAN 1 CONDESER
17 GTR CLAEN 2 DYNAMIC
18 GTR CLEAN 2 CONDESER
19 GTR OVERDRIVE 1 DYNAMIC
20 GTR OVERDRIVE 1 CONDESER
21 GTR OVERDRIVE 2 DYNAMIC
22 GTR OVERDRIVE 2 CONDESER
23 GTR LEAD DYNAMIC
24 GTR LEAD CONDENSR
25 GTR ACOUSTIC MIC 1
26 GTR ACOUSTIC MIC OR LINE
27 KEYBOARD 1 LEFT
28 KEYBOARD 1 RIGHT
29 KEYBOARD 2 LEFT
30 KEYBOARD 2 RIGHT
31 VOX LEAD
32 VOX BACKGROUND 1
33 VOX BACKGROUND 2

[028]

I can't imagine someone who is so serious and knowledgable about their recording in the above scenario, that they would have an 002r fronting the entire session.

Well, my buddy writes/mixes/masters music for TLC and Discovery. He actually sold his former TDM system running on OS9 and got himself a G5 + 002. He's loving it, although he misses features (obviously) and constantly runs out of tracks. So 002's are used professionally all the time and to say that professional work means being a millionaire is so far away from reality.

028

[Shan]

I 2 roll down my couch in my booth.

Right now I'm in my futon laid out in the studio and I can see both the control room and the iso booth through the glass.

Ya gotta love laptops with wireless internet. Great for cruising around the DUC.

And it makes better bed time reading.

Shane

[martian]

and there's nothing better than cranking it up at 4 in the morning knowing you are in a commercial building - no-one can hear u scream!

[Concious Burning]

Let me first say, i love PT. Im not complaining by making this post. I am simply showing you how an LE user can use more than 32 track. Its a pain, but im used to doing it, its not to big of a deal to me. This is the BASIC setup i use in recording bands. My band (Deaf Nation Radio) uses more than this when we record; but, this is my generic setup.
1)Over L
2)Over R
3)Kick in
4)Kick Ress. Head Dynamic
5)Kick Ress. Head Tube Condensor
6)Snare Top
7)Snare Bottom
8)Top Snare #2
9)Tom 1
10) Tom 2
11)Tom 3
12)HH
13)Ride
14)DrumRoomL
15)DrumRoomR
16)Bass
17)Guitar 1 Dynamic
18)Guitar 1 Tube Condensor
19)Guitar 1 Dub Dynamic
20)Guitar 1 Dub TC
21)Guitar 2 Dynamic
22)Guitar 2 TC
23)Guitar 2 Dub Dyn.
24)Guitar 2 Dub TC
25)Random Extra Guitar Dyn.
26)Random Extra Guitar TC
27)Keys L
28)Keys R
29)Samples L
30)Samples R
31)Main Vox
32)Main Vox Dub

Then i need to start mixing down to stereo tracks so that i can continue. This isnt a huge deal to me, like i said im not complaining im just showing you how more than 32 tracks can be used on an LE setup.

33)Main Vox extra's (i.e. wispers, talking, ect.)
34)Backing vox 1
35) Backing Vox 2
36)Backing Vox 3
37)Backing Vox 4

This is what a basic recording would look like for me on my 001. Not mentioned in my gear list below is my Behringer 8 ch. ADAT A/D. I know... i'm not a fan of it, but it gets the job done on a budget.

[BinkBonk]

Doesn't LE stand for Limited Edition?

My perspective is... If a person has a need for huge tracks counts and is a pro engineer, maybe a TDM system would better serve that person.

I think the LE version is designed for the "do it yourself" type rather than the "Pro" with demanding needs for their clients or their extravagant arrangements.

Running a profesional studio with only an 002r could loosely be compared to trying to be a professional mason using only adobe blocks. Sure, you could build a pretty nice wall with the stuff, but if you're going to be serious and competitive you better gets some real bricks...

Don't get mad, this just seems to be the logical, humble way to look at the situation and I'm sure Digidesign has this same outlook.

[Concious Burning]

Well then can all of us PTLE users that use slightly more than 32 tracks, and get paid by artists to do it, borrow $10,000 each? Thats my point. My system does exactly what i need it to do within the budget i wanna spend. I think its way more important, to me at least, to spend my money on nice pre's and mics. $$$$$$. Not to mention the countless # of pro studios that do fairly intense session work in thier B rooms on 002r's. So that compairison really isnt that valid. Pro work can be done on an LE system, you just have to know how to use it. Im just stating a point here, so dont take this post for more than what it is.